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Phigure wrote:i dont like generalizing, but i think its generally fair to say that black people have had more struggles to overcome in their history and that white people have had it relatively easy.

Why is that generalising? White people have had it made from day dot, haven't they??

do the chinese have Yellow Pride

^only good post in this thread imo

sd5 wrote:no white peoples have been enslaved en masse
to be used as beasts of burden by black peoples

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barbary_slave_trade

Reports of Barbary raids and kidnappings of those in Italy, Spain, France, Portugal, England, Ireland, Scotland as far north as Iceland exist from between the 16th to the 19th centuries. It is estimated that between 1 million and 1.25 million Europeans were captured by pirates and sold as slaves during this time period.[2] Famous accounts of Barbary slave raids include a mention in the Diary of Samuel Pepys and a raid on the coastal village of Baltimore, Ireland, during which pirates left with the entire populace of the settlement. Such raids in the Mediterrean were so frequent and devastating that the coastline between Venice to Malaga[3] suffered widespread depopulation, and settlement there was discouraged.

Anyway, not trying to make this a competition!

My two pence for what it's worth. On a purely semantic basis, there's no difference. Good luck convincing the average member of the public that.

I'm mostly the same as some others in this thread, be proud of something you worked for. Hell, be proud that your great-great-grandparents managed to stick it out long enough through slavery/extreme oppression, be proud that they stood up for themselves in a civil struggle. But to be proud just because you're the same colour/race/nationality as someone else is a bit broad for me. I'm not particularly proud as a white person because white dudes invented the steam engine, and that was pretty cool, because it was nothing to do with me.

"White people" or "black people" as a concept are a social constructs. Who's white depends on the culture and context. Americans are less likely to consider someone "white" than Europeans. And even "black people" as a concept is kind of racist if you think about it. A gigantic continent, Africa, with hundreds of ethnicities, languages, cultures.. where there's more genetic variety than any other place in the world.. where even groups of people are at war with each other and enslaving each other for centuries. How can you collectivise them as "black people" with a "black culture"? Some Eastern African cultures are probably a lot closer to Middle Eastern ones than ones in western Africa (right down to religion and language and perhaps even ethnically). Are they the same people because they have a similar skin color? That's shallow. What about Australian aboriginals?

You don't get to be proud of people with your skin color because your great-great-great-grandfather was enslaved by someone with a different skin color. Just think about how irrational that is. I didn't enslave anyone. And I'm not responsible for the actions of some dude I happen to share just that tiny bit of DNA with that I never met and don't give a fuck about.

garethom wrote:I'm not particularly proud as a white person because white dudes invented the steam engine, and that was pretty cool, because it was nothing to do with me.

Stop being modest!

Pride is a sin.

nowaysj wrote:Pride is a sin.

[/thread]

Well played.

Fuck circumstantial pride. If it's not something you've done to be proud of then you're just a scrub hanging out of your best friend's ride.

garethom wrote:

Reports of Barbary raids and kidnappings of those in Italy, Spain, France, Portugal, England, Ireland, Scotland as far north as Iceland exist from between the 16th to the 19th centuries. It is estimated that between 1 million and 1.25 million Europeans were captured by pirates and sold as slaves during this time period.[2] Famous accounts of Barbary slave raids include a mention in the Diary of Samuel Pepys and a raid on the coastal village of Baltimore, Ireland, during which pirates left with the entire populace of the settlement. Such raids in the Mediterrean were so frequent and devastating that the coastline between Venice to Malaga[3] suffered widespread depopulation, and settlement there was discouraged.

interesting, I didn't realize their impact was so widespread
but they were essentially non-black North African muslims
enslaving a different clientele from their arab cousins to the south-east

I would agree with the ninjas that are saying that it's a bit superfluous being proud of something inherent (gender, race, sexuality)
and, as Munchy suggests, Black Pride could be a misnomer for Glad to be Black

if it weren't for the political aspect whereby, similar to Gay Pride,
first you identify with a common cause (anti-discrimination)
& sense the opportunity for empowerment (pride) by the assertion of a collective will

so, if white people find themselve discriminated against because they are white
(rather than, say, because they are wealthy, educated, etc.)
I reckon they'd be entitled to similarly call for White Pride
except the term sounds too reactive and unnecessarily confrontational...

but then I'm not a white person suffering discrimination.

kay wrote:Fuck circumstantial pride. If it's not something you've done to be proud of then you're just a scrub hanging out of your best friend's ride.

I would say fuck pride in general, its all circumstantial really.

When do you ever have full responsibility for what youve done and what is pride good for apart from a bit of self satisfaction?

aside from the facts and preconceptions about who's been oppressed more (fairly obvious), there's the whole aspect of white folks identifying as nationality more so than complexion. Whether or not blacks sold one another into slavery or were just nicked up off the coasts of Africa, they've been taken from their homes, all over the continent and redistributed... they identify as "black" or whatever slang or descriptive they choose (e.g. "of African descent") ... all they know about their roots is that they're black folks. I guess i'm not talking so much about present day Africans but the emigrated descendants of slaves .

But anyway, white people who aren't just white supremacists... they get their pride from like Irish, Italian, Scot, even Jew (there's another historically oppressed one though). So it just sounds different to say "white pride"

Now that i think this through, seems like I'm only familiar with Americans tho. So i don't know

Is it racist to say you're proud not to be black/white?

Theres a book I need to read called How the Irish became white or something like that, along the lines of The Invention of the White race talking about how whiteness was basically just a club you joined if you bowed to the power of slave owners and the propertied. A way of co-opting the tired, the poor, the huddled masses that came to the New World and found the only way to be accepted was to brutalise that which was deemed even lower.

Cant say much for the books because I havent read either of them, but it makes sense to me anyway. Anyone else read them?

Laszlo wrote:

Phigure wrote:i dont like generalizing, but i think its generally fair to say that black people have had more struggles to overcome in their history and that white people have had it relatively easy.

Why is that generalising? White people have had it made from day dot, haven't they??

generalizing: Make general or broad statements

i simply said that because (obviously) not all white people have had it easy, and not all black people have had it hard

Yeah, I was being deliberately obtuse. (it wasn't a dig at you, Phigure)

tricky subject this, had to have a good think before posting (dsf rarity for me and I'd imagine a fair few of others!). I think in both camps there's extremist fuckheads who mix pride with superiority, which is pretty stupid. But whilst I wouldn't say I'm proud to be white, I'm definitely not ashamed of being white. And Im also not proud to not be any other race, which is also silly. I think the importance of learning about the oppression white people put upon black people can never be understated, and its something we should never forget. But sometimes I think the pendulum swings the other way. I heard any number of black guys at my old school try and play the race card whenever they got into trouble despite them being horrendous fuckheads and disrupting lessons in the most nonchalant manner, because as soon as they raised the issue of raise contributing to them being in trouble, any trouble they were in vanished. A lot of the time at my school the different ethnicites clashed (all boys strongly catholic school in a predominantly ethnic area), and sometimes this was over perceived favouritism by one side for the other, which was irritating to watch, as most of us didn't give two fucks and just wanted to not fuck our exams up too badly. These were common occurrences at my school unfortunately, so sometimes I have a slight feeling that it's important to let people know that they can't do whatever the hell they want just because they're of a certain race, and just treat everybody the same no matter who they are.

Cheeky wrote:I think the importance of learning about the oppression some white people put upon black people and some white people can never be understated..

Fixed

Laszlo wrote:

Cheeky wrote:I think the importance of learning about the oppression some white people put upon black people and some white people can never be understated..

Fixed

fair shout, technically it should also be some black people if you're aiming for that line of discussion, seeing as not all black people were oppressed at the time though a great many were. I find that correction a bit facetious of you though mate, it was obvious what I was referring to and what I intended.