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I justify this because DMZ have gone out of their way to make most people unable to have this. Fuck em and their snobbery

Terpit wrote:I justify this because DMZ have gone out of their way to make most people unable to have this. Fuck em and their snobbery

And damn all those producers for not sharing their exclusive VIPs, what wankers.

baddis98 wrote: ...

first off: pirating music and films IS rational. why should somebody pay something if he could obtain the same thing for free? the artist won't stop making music because individual X pirated his EP, resulting in the artist losing roughly £1 of revenue. as long as everybody pays for their music, it's a (rationally) better choice for individual X to pirate stuff. prisoner's dilemma. but that's just a sidenote. I don't pirate releases I haven't paid for - because of morals and ethics and all that shit (I will pirate vinyl rips for personal listening because I'm too lazy to rip each and every vinyl myself).

in response to your... err... response.
1. yeah, that was just targeted at your remark that these guys are making cash off of dmz's back. I hope this isn't the case and these are actually decent fellows. else I'd agree with you.
2. I appreciate your oppinion, but in my eyes it DOES matter. people pirating stuff do so even though the release is still perfectly available - in most cases even on beatport and the likes. people buying bootlegs BUY something. if there was a possibility to BUY an official release, they would. hell, if I didn't own 007 already, I'd be up for paying £60. but I'm most certainly not spending £150+ on a plate that's been pressed in large quantities, that has been available as a digital download, and of which one track even has been released on a compilation. "PIRATES" (don't get them twisted with rapists and murderers, even though some people tend to do so, including courts) want to get music for FREE. "BOOTLEGGERS" would readily buy the official release - if it was available.

you think I'd think about spending £10 on a dmz005 bootleg if I could get the official release for £20? or even £40? no. would I ever play a bootleg out? no. do I still want the tunes on a plate for home listening enjoyment? yes.

mate, i understand what you're saying and i got your points the first time. i even agree for the most part.
but what i'm trying to say is that these are just excuses ppl make up to justify that stuff for themselves (because of morals and ethics and all that shit). legally (or whatever it's called) you're still wrong.

Jurkhands wrote: first off: pirating music and films IS rational.

i never denied that. i said:

but there's no rational reason why bootlegging should be more tolerated or accepted as piracy.

which means (or at least is supposed to mean) that i don't see any logical reason why one type of piracy or stealing music should be 'better' or more acceptable than the other.

I agree, this release it seems isnt a low quality mass press to make money, and if the rumour that its limited to under 300 then I wouldnt be surprised if they dont break even.
and as for now none of us know who is behind it, then we cant comment on the motive.
all I know is that its not a cheap ripoff, it seems to of had substancial studio time behind it.
Im just grateful ive now got it in my collection for this small cost, however controversial it is!
And for those who know me from my main account, this isnt something I would play out as you already know.

Func wrote:

Moultz wrote:Obviously the original 007 plate in the 'holy grail' in this case but didnt Anti-War Dub become available via that Mary-Anne Hobbs collection?

Sure I spotted that recently going for like £60ish and it comes with about another 10 tracks or something including Loe's Mud VIP? Not too sure if thats a mix compilation tho or if the tracks are 'DJ Friendly'

I'd rather shell out the $$ for that than buy a bootleg of some remastered rip or something..

You'd rather spend £60 for a 4LP Boxset than buy a bootleg which will probably be less than £10 and has a louder pressing?

The VIP mix of Mud has Poax bigging up MAH, so it's not really DJ friendly.

we all know the holy grail of the plate is haunted..... if you are a huge fan of AWD and you don't know about the MAH thing...... obviously owning the actual 007 vinyl is what it's about, but i've always only really wanted it for haunted

could you actually imagine if they repressed the whole catalogue though...

BlueyTeamTom wrote:could you actually imagine if they repressed the whole catalogue though...

I'd buy the lot... except education/horrid henry coz I already have that one

Jurkhands wrote:first off: pirating music and films IS rational. why should somebody pay something if he could obtain the same thing for free? the artist won't stop making music because individual X pirated his EP, resulting in the artist losing roughly £1 of revenue.

Disagree with both points here...just because you can steal something, doesn't mean you should. And justifying piracy as 'only' costing the artist a £1 per time...not sure if I'm missing what you're getting at here, but that's a terrible way of looking at things IMO.

[INB4 real artists do it for love not money]

baddis98 wrote:mate, i understand what you're saying and i got your points the first time.

in that case I'm sorry I made you read through all my gibberish.
I was just trying to point out why in my oppinion there is a difference between straight-up pirating and bootlegging.

@wub: how is it rational (roughly: most amount of profit resulting from the smallest amount of effort) to buy music? all the reasons you and I buy music (and especially vinyl) are based on either romantic images you and I have created over time or ethical conventions and convictions we agreed upon and/or chose to adapt. the only point in time these actions become rational is when you're speculating on a release to gain you some large profits in the future (see: vinylvendour, tanmushimushi).
don't get me wrong: by our current standards (including mine) it's wrong to pirate music, as it's "wrong" not to vote or to put your trash in your neighbour's bin.

Jurkhands wrote:@wub: how is it rational (roughly: most amount of profit resulting from the smallest amount of effort) to buy music? all the reasons you and I buy music (and especially vinyl) are based on either romantic images you and I have created over time or ethical conventions and convictions we agreed upon and/or chose to adapt..

Not sure I've ever considered paying for things vs. theft as an 'ethical convention' TBH. I buy music because I like music that sometimes isn't free, also I don't mind doing so as I know a) it's worth it and b) I'm supporting the artists who have made it.

Do you shoplift? Serious question.

see? these are all non-rational reasons to buy/do something. I'm not talking about what's right or wrong. the question is whether buying music is rational or not.

also, I don't shoplift (partly because I'm afraid of the consequences (gov imposed mechanisms to render unideal decisions rationally worthwile again)). however, when I visited Malaysia last summer I saw plenty of reasons to lift from and boycott certain manufacturers.

You really cant justify stealing 69p songs just because you can get them for free.
Music is a luxury and you should support the artists you like.

Jurkhands wrote:see? these are all non-rational reasons to buy/do something. I'm not talking about what's right or wrong. the question is whether buying music is rational or not.

also, I don't shoplift (partly because I'm afraid of the consequences (gov imposed mechanisms to render unideal decisions rationally worthwile again)). however, when I visited Malaysia last summer I saw plenty of reasons to lift from and boycott certain manufacturers.

lol do you live your life like a robot doing things only because they are 'rational'?

Jurkhands wrote:when I visited Malaysia last summer I saw plenty of reasons to lift from and boycott certain manufacturers.

?

am i the only one who thinks it might actually be mala and coki behind it?

they're obviously aware of the demand and maybe finally felt like they should satisfy some of the people can't get a hold of it, as well as driving down the price on discogs somewhat. by making it look like a bootleg they avoid alienating everyone who bought the original or payed dumb amounts for it. mala always talks about how the tunes are special to a certain period of time, so he pressed them with bits of the RBMA interview to give em a bit of context

where's the tin foil hat smiley...

Phigure wrote:am i the only one who thinks it might actually be mala and coki behind it?

they're obviously aware of the demand and maybe finally felt like they should satisfy some of the people can't get a hold of it, as well as driving down the price on discogs somewhat. by making it look like a bootleg they avoid alienating everyone who bought the original or payed dumb amounts for it. mala always talks about how the tunes are special to a certain period of time, so he pressed them with bits of the RBMA interview to give em a bit of context

where's the tin foil hat smiley...

Yeah fucking right. Whoever was involved in any step of the manufacture and distribution of this record is a cheeky tnuc. There are so many great (arguably better) DMZ releases readily available: Return II Space, Stand/Maintain, Urban Ethics, and 2 Much Chat right around the corner. Really disrespectful to go behind DMZ's backs like this.

they need to do this is in america. id buy that shit.

yeah i mean my conspiracy theory aside, if it was some random dude doing it then yeah its pretty cuntish, but bootlegs are bootlegs. it's not a new phenomenon

anyways no matter how cuntish it is, some brit pls go pick this up at their local shop for me

ill make it worth your while with $$$ or trade you some records

ARTISTS & MUSICIANS OWE YOU NOTHING.

They don't create for you as product they create for you to experience their vision. They can have control over that experience as much or as little as they please. That is up to their discression. Not yours. Accept this. Move on. There's plenty else happening if someone's vision doesn't meet your expectations (which, need i remind isn't their problem.)

dsprainman wrote:2 Much Chat right around the corner.

What are you basing this on?

^^ next release is too much chat/coral reef according to coki