Dubstepforum.com

but what do you base kanye's genius on? i mean he has produced some excellent tracks in the early 2000s but if i've understood right ppl who praise him for his talent and forward-thinkingness usually refer to is his later works like 2010 onwards which includes albums mostly produced by others...

i mean if i had all that dough i'd make some dope ass albums sourcing the nastiest beats from the best and innovative producers around the world then recording my lame raps over em. besides music, the whole visual thing he represents with the greek statues etc had already been pretty passé when he adopted it.

he has got that rockstar thing going on though, i give you that with all his pompous statements and quirks

But thats the thing though, he doesnt just get stuck on getting good beats, he is trying to do something that goes beyond a few good individual beats to something thats wholly conceptual. No other MC is even thinking of their album on that level, which was why good kid mad city was such a breath of fresh air; kendrick was someone attempting something similar, and coming out with great results, but we've already decided he's 2pac Jayz magna carta was a disaster, just the title and nothing much more. Who else? Killer Mike/El-P could deliver, a track like Reagan is tbh miles above anything on Dark Twisted Fantasy. But thats about it

I guess im not attempting to justify if i actually like him or not, its whether or not hes atleast attempting a Floydian vision

Timbaland and Pharrel are much more important producers stylistically than kanye ever was. Pharrel had production credits on 'no diggity' just as an example of the scope of his work.
Whereas Timbaland is like Quincy Jones or Scratch Perry or someone like that .

In his solo career imo, Kanye has just clung to jay z's coat tails.
The first time he spat was on that horrible we are the champions remix.
I remember thinking this guy, I really hope he doesn't try to rap again and take the focus away from his beats.
Kanye used to just try to make just blaze beats for jay z and that was cool.

But comparing something like that with Hendrix is misunderstood.
Guy would have to have a vacuum cleaner turned into a sequencer or something, just by himself in a room imo.


If we are talking strictly influential and big scope I'd say dj Mustard is that guy now.

But has timbaland claimed to be andy warhol?

Ok im not sure how i could even justify what im about to say but fuckit: timbaland tries to be a producer, kanye tries to be an artist. Im not gonna judge one over the other for this, but thats how i see it

Yes production is art. But timbaland's album was just a bunch of beats, not a dark twisted fantasy. Nothing wrong with that, but you cant compare the two imo

topmo3 wrote:but what do you base kanye's genius on? i mean he has produced some excellent tracks in the early 2000s but if i've understood right ppl who praise him for his talent and forward-thinkingness usually refer to is his later works like 2010 onwards which includes albums mostly produced by others...

I've been following Kanye since about 2001, and people were praising him the same way then. The only difference is that he wasnt the same celebrity. Look at the album reviews and you'll see that since his debut, most critics dont give him less than a 8/10 (or some sort of equivalent).

Kanye was also a producer on all those later albums, even if other people did a bulk of the beats or whatever.[Insert Dr Dre argument here]. Executive production is still just as important, and considering how vast his production discography is... again, who really cares if he didnt make the beats?

I dont really see why you'd argue timbo and pharrell, not because of their skills (although its a fact that they are more production teams than producers still), but because they're just too old. Both of them have been around since the mid 90s, and both cant rap for shit compared to kanye (who isnt the greatest rapper). Check out thos timbaland and magoo albums if you think otherwise.

JIMI HENDRIX ALSO WOULDN'T HAVE WROTE HAPPY

The real question is who was the kanye of our parents generation?

m8son wrote:The real question is who was the kanye of our parents generation?

Depending on your parents age, its obivously Prince.

flying lotus, orbital or mogwai
or we can go older and thelonious monk

The real question should be who is the Chuck Berry of this generation?

Also what do you think of the confirmed rumor of the new pink floyd lp?
http://www.straight.com/blogra/680271/d ... loyd-album

But has timbaland claimed to be andy warhol?

Ok im not sure how i could even justify what im about to say but fuckit: timbaland tries to be a producer, kanye tries to be an artist. Im not gonna judge one over the other for this, but thats how i see it

Yes production is art. But timbaland's album was just a bunch of beats, not a dark twisted fantasy. Nothing wrong with that, but you cant compare the two imo

I mean inside of music that has been produced and hit people.

Kanye makes a lot of claims, like the one where he tries to have people believe he is a rapper with content. I think timbaland raps as good tbh and I think the messages in kanyes raps is aimed at the industry and not at people. A form of desperate manifestation where none of his 'consumers' by into the whole deal but prefer when he (insert: weird claim).

Timbaland in fairness is not just 'trying' he is in fact an producer.
I know what you mean but the fact that Kanye has such a hard time claiming things, means that it's not concrete or palpably true. It's a show going on no doubt, but so was Britney and 'Kanyes work won't stand the test of time either.

deadly habit wrote: The real question should be who is the Chuck Berry of this generation?

Jason Derulo

JizzMan wrote:

deadly habit wrote: The real question should be who is the Chuck Berry of this generation?

Jason Derulo

not seeing it convince me

deadly habit wrote:flying lotus, orbital or mogwai
or we can go older and thelonious monk

Orbital is not my generation lol.

Mogwai I barely know who are.

Flylo might be a good shout, definitely a big name with a far reach and a lot of variety, but IMO we have to wait a few years.

The problem with this thread is people think the question is who's the biggest musical genius or whatever. IMO that Pink Floyd thing is a certain specific space of rock star-ness, combined with a lot of influence and general forward-pushing.

I agree that purely as beatmakers Timbo or Pharell have more influence than Kanye, but Ye has a much more powerful influence in a broader sense. It's not the same.

I'll take yeezys cock out of my mouth now tho

Juicy J

kidshuffle wrote:

m8son wrote:The real question is who was the kanye of our parents generation?

Depending on your parents age, its obivously Prince.

No, thats unfair. Bruno Mars is more like a Prince type of artist.
Kanye would have to have spent time in gospel music to hit that audience that way.
The only way he hits those numbers in the mainstream like a soul singer would, is because of celebrity and because he is afroamerican.

Prince is an extension on classical soul music like donny or stevie and those guys.
Kayne is like a really really poor version of David Bowie.

Maybe Phil Collins actually but again he just has way more musical credibility than kanye with being a drummer, singer, producer and having been part of a huge band and playing with people like clapton etc, before prostituting himself for disney and similar stuff kanye would love to get the chance to do.

still

deadly habit wrote:

JizzMan wrote:

deadly habit wrote: The real question should be who is the Chuck Berry of this generation?

Jason Derulo

not seeing it convince me

cmon deadly, i know you see it, i know you feel it!

Neither Hendrix or Pink Floyd were that forward thinking. Hendrix isn't a legend because his playing was radically different, but because of his persona and critical acclaim and adoration for his music. For that, I think Nirvana and Kurt Cobain are a good comparison.

Pink Floyd were far from the craziest band. I think of all the psychedelic music from that era, they were definitely leaning to the lighter side and later even approached some real pop sensibilities. Listen to Cromagnon or Brainticket or Faust, those bands were a lot crazier. Frank Zappa and the Velvet Underground (predating Pink Floyd) were more forward thinking too. I think what's unique about Pink Floyd is that they brought a very inaccessible style of music to the masses. But the boundary pushing was done by other bands.

Edit: haha, again, Nirvana would be a good comparison. They made noise rock and hardcore punk fashionable.

Genevieve wrote:Neither Hendrix or Pink Floyd were that forward thinking. Hendrix isn't a legend because his playing was radically different, but because of his persona and critical acclaim and adoration for his music. For that, I think Nirvana and Kurt Cobain are a good comparison.

Pink Floyd were far from the craziest band. I think of all the psychedelic music from that era, they were definitely leaning to the lighter side and later even approached some real pop sensibilities. Listen to Cromagnon or Brain Ticket or Faust, those bands were a lot crazier. Frank Zappa and the Velvet Underground (predating Pink Floyd) were more forward thinking too. I think what's unique about Pink Floyd is that they brought a very inaccessible style of music to the masses. But the boundary pushing was done by other bands.

Edit: haha, again, Nirvana would be a good comparison. They made noise rock and hardcore punk fashionable.

They all did something different in their times, jimi was a great technical guitarist, pink floyd was well a group that did everything diff, hell nirvana while simplistic music wise embodied a generation with lyrics over power chords.
I'd bring up Frank Zappa, Phish, the Dead, Doors, Capitalist Casualties etc
hell even Pennywise or Voodoo Glowskulls
Or fuckin a Beastie Boys ex members DFL


Most of music's success comes down to time

wrong about hendrix but too right about floyd there Gen imo