Dubstepforum.com

Posted: **Thu Nov 10, 2005 10:18 pm**

Another allegation is that pirate radio is linked to crime, guns and drugs. Rinse management strongly deny this too. "They're living in the past. I don't know anyone who takes drugs anymore.

ok i'm just gonna play devil's advocate here, and I'm not suggesting that Rinse is linked to the business of selling drugs, but that quote is just utterly untrue isnt it. Everyone smokes weed, fact. Those that don't are exceptions. And i'm sorry, i'm not accepting 'canabis isnt a drug' bollocks either. Come on now.

Posted: **Thu Nov 10, 2005 10:26 pm**

Gutter wrote: Maybe I should quit while I'm (barely) ahead...

please don't. i read it every week.

Posted: **Thu Nov 10, 2005 10:34 pm**

dubmugga wrote: wrong again man...

...them locks is real and have been for 13 years and guess what??? i don't even do pork, also if you want total culture, know that you are talking to a native polynesian

see the thing is, we didn't get introduced to the sound or "culture" or whatever through pirate radio, blogs or mixtapes...

...we were listening and buying rekkids from dn'b through to breaks/breakstep, garage, to dubstep and making tunes along the way

we evolved with the music outside of the "culture" and are a part of the international face of the music outside of london...

...the only scene here is me, Jared(other hellscientist) and about 2other mates. It is a small part of our lives and not our frontline culture. We have family, dayjobs, other interests and are part of another culture, that of urban NZ which I imagine is radically diferent from london club culture

I remember posting about this on BBWW a few months ago of the danger of trying to control the scene by geography and dubplate culture just like d'n'b did in the early days and know that it virtually killed the conscious aspect of jungle for years...

boomnoise

...the finite number of recordings is beacuse of the investment in vinyl and the turnaround time using trad forms of distro and marketing. I'm sure a lot of the big boy producers have shitloads of tunes lined up which they could flood the international market with and really get people to sit up and take notice listen and distribute the sound, even do more mixtapes outside of crappy radio streams and broadcast live gigs

blogging is bullshit, one man's opinion on whatever the fuck and a form of egotistical self promotion, another drain on my precious bandwidth...

...forums are the shit

chlll man. just pullin your leg about the extensions!

i dont know why you are taking this dated notion of the culture just being local. the internet means it is both local and global, which means whether you like it or not, you are participating in a culture. not necessarily the same part of it as people in london, but jsut by posting on here, you are part of it.

and don't underestimate the power of the blogs!

Posted: **Fri Nov 11, 2005 12:29 am**

geoff wrote:
chlll man. just pullin your leg about the extensions!

i dont know why you are taking this dated notion of the culture just being local. the internet means it is both local and global, which means whether you like it or not, you are participating in a culture. not necessarily the same part of it as people in london, but just by posting on here, you are part of it.

and don't underestimate the power of the blogs!

but we don't live the culture you purport dubstep to be surrounding...ie london underground club and dubplate culture...

...I been through all this with hiphop here in NZ and lil shithead kids thinking that just cos they can spin on their heads, scratch up some rekkids, spray a wall or spit rhymes in time that they are living a culture

don't confuse art with culture...

...we do art as beats and grafix we don't do culture cos we don't live it

define dubstep culture ???

...blogs are a form of advertising, mostly individual opinions. The key to make them successful is to advertise your advertisement, kinda silly i always thought and only worthwhile if

a) you have an informed opinion
b) can articulate it in an entertaining fashion

very few actually do that and usually after 3 browses if i'm not feeling it I'm outta there never to return, maybe it'd be different if I had broadband

It is so frustrating reading about hyped up events and the feedback from them when you are 12 000 miles away...

BTW...Gutter i'm feelin your blog, don't quit

Posted: **Fri Nov 11, 2005 12:33 am**

dubmugga wrote:there is no such thing as society

Posted: **Fri Nov 11, 2005 12:38 am**

^^^hah no I didn't

boomnoise wrote:there is no such person as boomnoise just empty words on a screen representing a virtual persona full of sound and fury but signifying nothing

Posted: **Fri Nov 11, 2005 12:39 am**

hahah

that's whay my girlfriend says!

Posted: **Fri Nov 11, 2005 12:51 am**

^^^yeah man and isn't that what blogging, post whoring and forum slutting is all about...

...fuck tying in the culture shit, or trying to define it or the music, just judge us by our beats and let the beats reign down

if it resonates with an emotion you have ???...cool

if it doesn't ??...then you're just ignorant and got no taste

Posted: **Fri Nov 11, 2005 12:55 am**

dubmugga needs to hold it down

Posted: **Fri Nov 11, 2005 1:00 am**

^^^hold what bro ???

I think dubmugga just needs to keep keeping it real, relevent and riding his own bike...

...fuck worrying about breaking the cycle, it's been broken for a while but most peeps are too scared to openly discuss and debate the reasons why it needs fixing

Posted: **Fri Nov 11, 2005 1:07 am**

how on earth can you judge music just by 'the beats'? sure if you're mashed and head nodding in a stupor but 'the beats' have to be framed by something representing culture. so much music would make no sense without the culture which surrounds it.

and no, the above, isn't what it's all about. its about developing understanding, a critical discourse which allows people to really engage with the music. it isn't all about pure guttural responses. even if it is, in part; is emotive response not reason enough to write about and discuss it?? and this doesn't, as you infer, compromise any enjoyment. for me it enhances it.

i really think you should read some books

but we are off post here. i really think a new post is warranted for this debate.

Posted: **Fri Nov 11, 2005 1:24 am**

more empty words boomer...

...music doesn't have to make sense !!!

it's entirely subjective. You can tak grime and play it in somalia and they don't give a shit about the culture but if they like it, it's because it resonates with an emotion they can sense...

...i can't be fucked talking music, it's like a job sometimes and I am not my job. It doesn't define me i define it but it's not all I do it is not my be all and end all it is not my culture. It's more like therapy

don't you get that we developed outside of all that culture shit in that book with raves, pirate radio, mixtapes and everything...

...we went to record shops and just listened to music bought the stuff we liked and played it out, for us it was all about the music and still is

I don't need a book to tell me what to think or how to frame it in a cultural context or even how to make music to appease a culture

we watched all that stuff develop from a far without ever being a part of it and just cos we make beats, promote them and distribute them on the net doesn't mean we are a part of your culture...

I don't do hard drugs, I've tried meth once and e once I don't need it to accentuate my listening pleasure. I'm actulaly quite anti social and the only big dance parties i been at i was working on as stage manager or rigging light and sound crew...

...take our music at face value and like it or not it matters little to what we do and think and know we are only getting started and getting better

Posted: **Fri Nov 11, 2005 1:29 am**

don't encourage him.

Posted: **Fri Nov 11, 2005 1:42 am**

...it wouldn't make any difference Al

I encourage you all to think and speak your mind without wondering if you're going to offend anybody or put yourself outside of the mainstream...

...see this is what i prefer about forums as opposed to blogs

here you can defend and refute others opinions in a dynamic, interactive manner...

...on blogs it's your world you say what you like and if anyone says dfferently just delete em

i can understand blackdowns reluctance cos he's a trained journo an interested, supposedly unbiased observer reporting on the scene while not wishing to speak for the scene...

...but once again all that 's happening is maintaining the status quo and the distance between observer and participant likewise with producer and listener

break the fucking mould fellas...

...this isn't a blog this is an active discussion, spit it out lest you choke on it

Posted: **Fri Nov 11, 2005 5:19 am**

geoff wrote:i dont know why you are taking this dated notion of the culture just being local. the internet means it is both local and global, which means whether you like it or not, you are participating in a culture. not necessarily the same part of it as people in london, but jsut by posting on here, you are part of it.

Absolutely on the money re: both dubmugga and the issues Nick raises with Martin's piece. Like it or not, dubstep has a global presence (through blogs, portals/forums, e-commerce, web streams and mp3s) and people outside of London have begun actively producing the (sub)culture, not just consuming it.

blackdown wrote:blogs were able to magnify this enthusiasm. but they didn't create this enthusiasm in the first place... i'm not interested in bigging ourselves up. respect is given not taken!

Martin - You're being evasive. First off you're got a published column with your blog address at the bottom. You are, therefore, biggged up (i.e. setup as an authority, a cultural producer) as a matter of course. Second, you don't have to big yourself up if you don't want to, but there are a lot of us (bloggers - Nick, Infinite, yourself, etc. , sites like SouthernSteppa, Riddim.ca, and now this forum) around the world who have been putting a lot of time, effort and often expense into building this scene, and the effect is undeniable. I'd argue that this network (including the grime bloggers - luka, woebot, reynolds, silverdollar, etc.) has been largely responsible for building the interest that led to Pitchfork caring to cover grime/dubstep in the first place.

The fact is, is we are all 'the scene' now. It's not just producers and DJs, or DMZ, FWD and Rinse. The music can be great but it doesn't move around on its own and you can recognise this without detracting from the crew in London. It's becoming too obvious to ignore.

Posted: **Fri Nov 11, 2005 8:22 am**

for gods sake first gutta now you paul! i didnt make some massive decision to ignore and thereful insult the cultural relevance of blogs. i just find talking about yourself is makes you self-centred and immodest. i chose to be humble about the importance of all us media.

Posted: **Fri Nov 11, 2005 9:03 am**

Alex bk-bk wrote:'canabis isnt a drug'

but it isnt

Posted: **Fri Nov 11, 2005 10:09 am**

nice one autonomic...

...contributing to "a scene" and actively participating in the development of an international musical genre, we can handle

but it just gets messy and possessive when you start talking culture unless you add a sub to it...

...in which case following the culture along geographical lines eases it down the well trodden path of other UK based cultural musical phenomenons

do we really want to do the whole U.S vs UK competitive thing like what went down on DOA a few years ago with regards to d'n'b and apply it to dubstep, where by on one side you have the london massive and the rest of the world on the other ???

i'd rather the whole backward looking revisionist thing and catastrophic misjudgments with regards to music just come and go, cos then it's survival of the fittest and natural selection especially if the other option is have some cultural ownership thing operating out of london and deciding who or what is considered dubstep...

...we may have the opportunity to re define the whole marketing and distribution of this type of music here than just sticking to the exclusive underground scene and bullshit sellout mentality that plagues other scenes when someone goes mainstream by levelling the playing field to start with

as professional musicians you are not selling out a culture by looking to expand your audience or put bread on the table by any means neccessary it's not like we're ripping off african riddims for some nu age world music crossover ...

...anyway just random thoughts hoping to inspire discussion we all know it makes little difference in the general scheme of things

I mean can we really re-tune the world with music ???

Posted: **Fri Nov 11, 2005 11:50 am**

r33lc4sh wrote:
Alex bk-bk wrote:'canabis isnt a drug'
but it isnt

try smoking some of the skunk about in south london right now: oooff! You'll change yr mind

Posted: **Fri Nov 11, 2005 12:10 pm**

while on the subject...

...check this

Map & Graph: Lifestyle: Cannabis use

source: OECD

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph-t/lif_can_use

...powering into the lead and almost cracking 23, the magic number

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