Dubstepforum.com

i think we've got our wires crossed somewhere, i'm not just arguing for the sake of it.

even if

jim wrote:They are using black to refer to their audience more than the origins of the music. If they meant of black origin then the majority of popular music would be eligible to be termed as such. What they mean is music predominantly listened to by the black community, or just music that is conspicuously listened to by said community.

is the case, that doesn't make the term correct, and although it might not be out-and-out racist it certainly isn't the most inclusive of terms, is it.

i just think it's funny when white people get all up in arms about music being called "black", to the point where they toss out the word "racist", but don't say word one when actual racism affects actual people in the actual world (like say, with jobs, housing, schooling, etc.).

the difference here is that calling music "black" really, in the grand scheme of things, affects you...um...mostly not at all (whether i think it's accurate and pigeonholing is really another argument altogether). but it's fun to winge and moan and call that racism without any real understanding of what the word "racism" means in a real-life context. actual institutionalized racism is a factor that can actually affect the ability of people of color to LIVE. personally, i feel that's a bit more important.

why 'black music', 1Xtra?

1Xtra wrote:The term 'Black Music' is solely an umbrella term commonly used in the music industry to describe forms of music originating in what can be termed black culture. It does not mean music for black people or music for black cultures exclusively and we hope that many different cultures and peoples will listen and contribute both to our station and music of black origin at large.

We believe that the term is more accurate, respectful and inclusive than alternative terms such as 'street music' or 'urban music'.

We have never intended or hoped to segregate cultures in the UK with this term, in fact our aim would be to allow the music we broadcast to reach an ever broader audience, in the hope of building bridges between different aspects of UK and global culture, whilst acknowledging and promoting the origins of such music.

it's crude labelling deffo, but there we go.

Oh shit?

You mean I wont ever be able to get nominated for a MOBO cos I am white :(:(

jim wrote:No, let's all call it "urban" which basically is a codeword for "black" and then all be happy.

You mean "London black". As if it's the only urban area in the UK.

Also, Jamiroquai, Prodigy, Adam F, even Mick fucking Hucknall have all won MOBOs and aren't the only white artists to do so.

They are bang out of order calling it "black music" though. Same with the BBC Asian Network. It's positive affirmation, it's segregation, it perpetuates the myth that whites are the new lowest racial point, since there is no BBC Radio Whitey.

Even "music of black origin" as a name is pretty outdated now imo. I can't think of a single artist making music today who doesn't owe his/her whole fucking career to an artist of a different race, whether directly as a producer or indirectly as an influence. Isn't rock just the blues? Wasn't the blues "black music"?

Thing is, if Radio 1 had the balls to do what it does at night around the clock, there would be no need for 1xtra at all. After 6 or 7pm they have the balance spot on.

Doesn't really matter though does it - hardly like they're going to be saying "Radio 1xtra - home of dance music influenced by and listened to by an afro-carribean audience alongside other interested parties of other ethnic persuasions" now are they? Wouldn't be any time left to play tunes after the jingle was done.

Shiva's made the best comment so far on this

as stated before, its not racist at all, its just stupid marketing from the big boys club. its interesting how they only really use this slogan in the day time shows, if youlisten to the more specialist shows they dont really mention it. its a shite station anyway with maybe 1 or 2 good shows A WEEK left. its a shame as theres real potential there, i was excited when it first started but now alas its awash with alot of the commercial swagness you might hear on other stations such as kiss.

PIRATES FOR LIFE

agree with shiva. yeah it's annoying but compared to the real problems of racism in the world it's nothing

having said that it really does annoy me. suppose its much like other forms of positive discrimation there are out there in favour of minorities that have (or are still being) been discriminated against. things such as women only car insurers and clubs whilst things like men's only golf clubs etc are deplored as out-dated and sexist

so many double standards out there

Now I'm not too familiar with any of this, but isn't it Black music if it wins a MOBO award and white music if it wins a Mercury award?

Course its racist if it was the other way round the black community would go nuts, end of. Music of black origin??? Modern music has no specific origin it is an amalgamation. Where was is the guitar from? who developed the software?... its all relative.

In answer to the original question no i dont think its racist.

does anyone who's black think its racist?

On a kinda of related issue....
I get really sick of this endless politically correct bollocks. He said "n*gga" or whatever therefore he's a racist. It distracts for the actual issue, which is not sayin a word makes you racist its the attitute, intention & predjudice behind what you say. The PC era has made things worst in this sense. Some deluded idiots think that just because they dont use certain words means that "i'm not racist".


i'd be interested to see the demographics of 1xtras listeners. As i'd be willing to guess it probably has a large white audience as well black/asian etc. As someone pointed out hiphop/rnb has a big hold over pop/mainstream an not just music, clothings jewerelley etc. The BBC were probably attempting to bring in both a young white audience & Black/asian by taggin it "Black music" . Firstly black/asians have something that they can easily identfied as theirs. Secondly, white kids are into hiphop etc black music big style. So by tagging it the home of black music white kids are more likely to go for it. Its seen as cool/different.

An if you wanna get literal loads of genres are heavily black influenced not just the obvious ones. Rock for example owes a lot to early black blues stuff. Christ even Techno a la juan atkins, kevin saunderson etc.

I think 1xtra is racist.

I stopped listening to it time ago when some idiot was on there going on about dubstep being the latest black music.

And to that boy that grand pointed out at the begining,he needs to get shanked!

I think you are steping into dangerous teritory when you start talking about the origin and any form of music really. Its such a complex system in interwoven influences that it would be almost imposable to state with any cetainty who or what was the original this that or the other. Take blue for instance. It's commanly thought of as a black music. But, few people know that it comes from a black chior who were singing traditional europian hyms in and aound the southern states. So the question is, where does blues come from? Well it neather black or white it a mixture of both. You can go on like this until the end of time with this if you want. All im saying on this matter is


"Out of Africa"

Definition: The Out of Africa or African Replacement Hypothesis argues that every living human being is descended from a small group in Africa, who then dispersed into the wider world displacing earlier forms such as Neanderthal. Major proponents of this theory are led by Chris Stringer.

The Out-of-Africa theory was bolstered in the early 1990s by research on mitochondrial DNA studies by Allan Wilson and Rebecca Cann which suggest that all humans ultimately descended from one female: the Mitochondrial Eve. See "multi-regional hypothesis" for contrasting theory.

there has been a debate for along time now about whether we should use 'urban' as a term for a genre or collection of genres...many from the black community argue that the term was created by white middle class music execs to label something they didn't understand...i think the fact that joss stone (a young white women from devon) won an award for best urban act a few years ago proves that point...don't get me wrong i think she is talented but i don't think she is very urban...in fact it would seem better to me if she won an award for best music of black origin act or something less of a mouth full...

so to the point of the topic...1xtra is a station that plays what we would all understand to be urban music...when we think urban we think of stuff that is from the cities and of black origin...i think 1xtra where aware of the arguments against using urban and went for new black music...i understand how some might see this as racist...but calling something urban when we mean black, and denying its heritage can be perceived as being racist as well...

it is hard to get the balance right on something like this but i think 1xtra did...

If Jesus had a sound system, he'd have been a fucking great toaster don't you think?

wil? wrote:there has been a debate for along time now about whether we should use 'urban' as a term for a genre or collection of genres...many from the black community argue that the term was created by white middle class music execs to label something they didn't understand...i think the fact that joss stone (a young white women from devon) won an award for best urban act a few years ago proves that point...don't get me wrong i think she is talented but i don't think she is very urban...in fact it would seem better to me if she won an award for best music of black origin act or something less of a mouth full...

so to the point of the topic...1xtra is a station that plays what we would all understand to be urban music...when we think urban we think of stuff that is from the cities and of black origin...i think 1xtra where aware of the arguments against using urban and went for new black music...i understand how some might see this as racist...but calling something urban when we mean black, and denying its heritage can be perceived as being racist as well...



it is hard to get the balance right on something like this but i think 1xtra did...

I dont. So the black community were worried about "urban" being a white middle class term for "black music", sooooo 1xtra decided to just call it "new black music" without thinking who that might alienate?!?! its a complete facre..

Also, denying its heritage is racist? is fucking MAD, if thats the case we better start labelling all music, art, film, with its racial origins just incase we offend anyone right?

And pleaase stop with this bullshit about "real" racism, no ones comparing this to slavery or institutionalised racism, its just a lazy innacurate term that does nothing but alienate and irratate people, as illustrated by most peoples feelings in this thread.

I personally think "Urban" is a far better word.

Hmmm, why do I always end up reading these threads...

The only thing which really stood out to me as a bad point was people saying that any racist feelings people may get from the station (I have absoloutely no opinion on this bit btw. Its so unimportant it hurts) are minor compared to "real" racism that goes on. Course thats true, but doesnt mean it can be ignored. Sure, there are far more people starving in Africa say than the streets of London, but doesn't mean you can just ignore one and focus on the other.

Auan wrote:it perpetuates the myth that whites are the new lowest racial point, since there is no BBC Radio Whitey.

You have just landed on Pluto, pal. Most insane babbling I've read in time. Sort it out.

Muhammad Ali could've been an MC.
Jimmy Saville had two decks, and could float like a butterfly.

Carry on...