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Posted: Mon Mar 24, 2008 6:49 pm
by dubsworth
relaks wrote:good post. while I certainly don't trust obama I feel a lot more confident in his abilities than the other candidates. Would be amazing to have a president who can speak inspirationally again... someone interested in foreign policy would certainly help too.
Cheers. However if the foreign policy the candidate is interested in is the current American foreign policy, we are in only more trouble. Our current foreign policy is an imperialist form of globalism. If Obama wants permanent bases with permanent troops, it means more death and more war. If Obama is preaching the war on terror and 9/11, we will get nothing but more actions in the middle east and all over the world supporting this imperial agenda all in the name of defense against "terrorism."
Posted: Mon Mar 24, 2008 6:50 pm
by kani
Kucinich was definitely my favorite..
I like Edwards as well, mainly because the powers that be marginalized him as much as they did perhaps shows he would have been somewhat of a threat to the system.
as far as politicians being crappy en masse, Ive been privileged enough to have Keith Ellison as my Rep..
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keith_Ellison_(politician)
Posted: Mon Mar 24, 2008 6:51 pm
by parson
Dubsworth wrote:relaks wrote:good post. while I certainly don't trust obama I feel a lot more confident in his abilities than the other candidates. Would be amazing to have a president who can speak inspirationally again... someone interested in foreign policy would certainly help too.
Cheers. However if the foreign policy the candidate is interested in is the current American foreign policy, we are in only more trouble. Our current foreign policy is an imperialist form of globalism. If Obama wants permanent bases with permanent troops, it means more death and more war. If Obama is preaching the war on terror and 9/11, we will get nothing but more actions in the middle east and all over the world supporting this imperial agenda all in the name of defense against "terrorism."
hear mothafuckin hear
Posted: Mon Mar 24, 2008 6:52 pm
by jah wobble
trusting any career politician farther than you can throw them is a bad move. i mean i could probably toss lil kucinich a bit further (
) but they all suck and are probably all related to each other in some way or another.
Posted: Mon Mar 24, 2008 6:53 pm
by parson
kucinich is a good dude
Posted: Mon Mar 24, 2008 6:59 pm
by fuagofire
Posted: Mon Mar 24, 2008 7:04 pm
by amykamala
Parson wrote:kucinich is a good dude
my dad is friends with dennis kucinich so i have met him personally on more then one occasion. I can honestly say he has nothing but the most genuine pure intentions, he genuinely wants to help humanity progress and evolve. the guy meditates ffs, incredibly rare in a politician. i hate to say it though, but thats why he hasnt gotten further. people want a president who comes across as being really really strong and apprently pigheaded. and kucinich is a pacifist.
Posted: Mon Mar 24, 2008 7:05 pm
by cursedc
If you noticed the media is turning toward Hillary as the Dem's candidate and marginalizing Obama now. I guess that meeting Hillary had with George Bush paid off. The passing of the torch if you will.
Don't think they'll shut down all the military bases, but I think they are starting to reorganize a bit for a bigger problem. The general movement to de-arm the US private citizen and establish more "private" soldiers for black ops is in our future.
All the "new money" liberals will be left with a worthless dollar and no real way to trade for goods. The fall of the american dollar is proof of that. The invasion of america will be one of private industry. All in the name of "free markets and capitalism." Buy a whole state, only 100 Million Euros, or whatever will be used as currency.
The Louisiana Purchase revisited! What a deal......
I'll still tough it out in American though. I love the west coast and the weather. Let us hope that we can take back out country and our pride away from the global elite and keep our own peace. Let other places solve their own problems without selling them the weapons to "solve it."
offensive defense.......
Posted: Mon Mar 24, 2008 7:07 pm
by parson
amykamala wrote:Parson wrote:kucinich is a good dude
my dad is friends with dennis kucinich so i have met him personally on more then one occasion. I can honestly say he has nothing but the most genuine pure intentions, he genuinely wants to help humanity progress and evolve. the guy meditates ffs, incredibly rare in a politician. i hate to say it though, but thats why he hasnt gotten further. people want a president who comes across as being really really strong and apprently pigheaded. and kucinich is a pacifist.
freal. equating kucinich with other smarmy politicians is offensive.
Posted: Mon Mar 24, 2008 7:07 pm
by jim
Oh my goshle. This thread got 'tarded real quick.
Posted: Mon Mar 24, 2008 7:07 pm
by dubsworth
Quietmouse wrote:whew, for a second there i thought you were gonna call him a muslim or something
i support obama thoroughly but there are some valid criticisms of him (like some of the above), he's not perfect
but if you don't think he's light years beyond any other candidate in recent memory, you're crazy
also, for the record, he's specifically against torture, wants to restore habeas corpus, and doesn't want to start another war
Funny you should mention that I might be afraid of him because he is Muslim. His continued support of the war in Iraq and vague positions on Iran have helped endanger and murder Muslims all around the world. Also Obama is in full support of the official narrative on 9/11 and it's extremely racist depiction of Muslims (i'd love to clarify that one if you would like though I know many of you understand this).
If Obama is specifically against torture, why does he not specifically speak out against the Military Commissions Act (MCA) and propose removing it right away? If he wants to restore habeas corpus he could do it through simply proposing removal the MCA. Just the discussion about the legislation alone would help expose the horrid crimes the MCA has helped criminals carry out. Is Obama against the President and Secretary of Defense having the power to define anyone they choose as an enemy combatant?
I cannot buy Obama's buzzline "I'm not against all war, I'm against stupid wars." While this is cute and all, lack of specifics just continues to be a trap for America. Why can't he say NO MORE middle east wars? Why can't he be clear about Iran? Why doesn't he say that after we clean up our mess we don't remove the bases which we have installed all over the middle east? Why can't Obama start discussing a complete shift in the imperialist foreign policy which has created these outrageous conflicts?
Again, we need to force people like Obama to talk about the specific legislations that are allowing the war and the torture etc....Otherwise he is supporting these crimes even if he says he is against them.
Posted: Mon Mar 24, 2008 7:09 pm
by parson
CursedC wrote:
Don't think they'll shut down all the military bases, but I think they are starting to reorganize a bit for a bigger problem. The general movement to de-arm the US private citizen and establish more "private" soldiers for black ops is in our future.
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/stor ... d=14707922
http://www.americanprogress.org/issues/ ... water.html
Posted: Mon Mar 24, 2008 7:13 pm
by samsupa
I support Obama because he is the first candidate in years that is talking about Race in America which is important to me. His record is much better than most and he did not blindly vote for the war. He has some solutions to national and international problems. Hilary is more of the same and I'll be dammed is half of my life is ruled under 2 families (Bush & Clinton). Everyone else especially Ron Paul are too weak to make the cut.
It sucks that people outside the mainstream can't cut into the political system. Believe me I would have loved to vote for Kusinich and I will not vote for a losing candidate because this next election is too important for that. I will not make a stand and waste a vote just to make a point. That is selfish and wasteful in my opinion. Here in the real world the system is set and Obama at least is different and I believe the world will treat America differently if he becomes president.
Here is something my friends at the ILF wrote. they do guerrilla theater all over the US. they sent me this before Super Tuesday.
Greetings, Electorate
We at the ILF know that voting is not always fun. There is a distressing dearth of imagination in our political process. If you feel good about a candidate, congratulations. But you might also feel depressed, disenchanted, disenfranchised, disillusioned, dissed. You might feel like there is no difference between the front runners, or that you are unhappy with our two "major" parties. You might burn with indignation over how your candidates or opinions are not represented in the media, or in government. You might feel like the elections are rigged.
To all this, we say: WAH WAH WAH! Elections aren't about voting for your favorite dream candidate, whose portrait you put under your pillow and kiss before lights out. Elections are a time for pragmatism. For doing the best for your world and yourself depending on what's on the ballot.
If your issue or voice is not represented on the ballot, then it is up to you (and us) to get it there, or to tackle that problem in some other way. The ILF will be happy to make suggestions.
If you feel that the two parties are fundamentally the same, consider the milllions of people in this country - and around the world - whose lives will be seriously affected by those seemingly slim margins between stances on health care, education, perpetual war, the environment, etc. You might even be personally affected by one of those issues! (For instance, what might America be like today had it been Al Gore in office all this time? Close your eyes and see if you can imagine any potential differences!)
If you feel that our elections are compromised by cheating, all the more reason to make sure that the results are not close enough to be bridged by tampering.
If you can't decide between Hillary or Barack, or wish you didn't have to choose between them, suck it up. Do some research. Form an opinion. It's fun!
Oh yes - this is not one of those emails in which we maintain that we don't care who you vote for so long as you vote. That would be like a corporate journalist claiming to be unbiased. We do care. Vote against the Republicans. They are worse. McCain is not a decent person, and Romney is downright frightening. No matter which of the perhaps underwhelming Democratic candidates wins the nomination, get used to the idea of voting for him or her in November. Who stacks up best against the Republican front runners?
Remember: elections are for pragmatism. Not fun. We need to stop the bleeding and put our best options available in office. Once that is accomplished, we should use all of the energy and unity we've cultivated in the Age of Bush on the new prez, as we try to shape the world to our ideals. Voting is not our only tactic, but it is Tuesday's tactic.
Love,
The Imagination Liberation Front
P.S. If you have neglected to register for Tuesday's primary, please administer a swift kick to your own groin and get on it in time for the June election and the generals in November.
Posted: Mon Mar 24, 2008 7:13 pm
by dubsworth
CursedC wrote:
Sorry to break it to my fellow liberals but Obama is all talk. Hillary is your only real chance of getting a "Democrat" back into the white house.
No way, at least not the idea that I feel most in the left have of what a democrat is. Hillary is more pro war with Iran than many of the Neo-Con's. She is also deep into the idea of the 100 years war. Hillary also voted for the majority of the previously mentioned legislations which I am upset about Obama voting for.
Posted: Mon Mar 24, 2008 7:14 pm
by cursedc
Parson wrote:amykamala wrote:Parson wrote:kucinich is a good dude
my dad is friends with dennis kucinich so i have met him personally on more then one occasion. I can honestly say he has nothing but the most genuine pure intentions, he genuinely wants to help humanity progress and evolve. the guy meditates ffs, incredibly rare in a politician. i hate to say it though, but thats why he hasnt gotten further. people want a president who comes across as being really really strong and apprently pigheaded. and kucinich is a pacifist.
freal. equating kucinich with other smarmy politicians is offensive.
Folks just couldn't take Kucinich seriously.....Even the democrats I knew up in seattle thought he was a bit of a joke and "idealist." At least the man has ideals and believes in putting them forward. Government can't solve your problems, but it should be causing most of them either. Right now this county's problems are being cause by 100 years of neglect. there were decades of advancement, space program being one of them. That was still brought by wrathful hands (ex izan scientists) of Wernher von Braun. Humans still advance by sacrifice (of the selfish not the selfless nature)...
Posted: Mon Mar 24, 2008 7:14 pm
by fuagofire
shit is that actual private soldiers allowed to walk around with guns????!!!!
now i've seen everything,
Posted: Mon Mar 24, 2008 7:15 pm
by parson
wernher von braun was not a n.azi. don't lump him in with them.
Posted: Mon Mar 24, 2008 7:17 pm
by parson
thats like saying kucinich is a neocon because he's a democrat.
Posted: Mon Mar 24, 2008 7:19 pm
by cursedc
As crazy as people think this guy is, he actually has some good "conspiracy theories" that are looking a lot like actually events and plans and less like theories.
http://www.infowars.com/
Those are great articles btw. Blackwater is one of the big contracting groups to watch out for.
Posted: Mon Mar 24, 2008 7:25 pm
by parson
CursedC wrote:
As crazy as people think this guy is, he actually has some good "conspiracy theories" that are looking a lot like actually events and plans and less like theories.
http://www.infowars.com/
Those are great articles btw. Blackwater is one of the big contracting groups to watch out for.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=aW9PulYpjGs
blackwater recently got a billion dollar contract to expand operations domestically
