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Posted: Fri Feb 06, 2009 6:48 am
by zgomot
Rynke wrote:zgomot wrote:A lot of what's been said in this thread, sounds to me like pretentious wank.
Nothing is original any more. One way or another we are all taking inspiration from (read copying) artists/tracks we like, adding our own interpretation of things, admittedly, but the end result is never ground breaking, nor new, let alone original.
You sound like some one thats very tired of making music...
Quite the contrary. I feel I'm only just beginning (although it's been almost a decade since I first started making music) and having boatloads of fun doing it.
And this.
kidlogic wrote:
Using a loop whole can be lazy, but why work super hard if you dont have to? If it fits, and sounds good, then why not use it? Im not gonna walk to the store on my hands just for more of a "sense of achievement".
At the end of the day, musicians (producers, dj's etc) are there to entertain the public and the public doesn't give a fuck if you used a loop straight off the FL Studio preset sample library, or a sample off of Reason's soundbank, our you spent a whole night tweaking Absynth to get a bass sound. If it sounds good they'll dance and enjoy themselves.
End of thread, IMO.
Posted: Fri Feb 06, 2009 7:38 am
by zgomot
If your tracks suck, a good sounding loop will only make for a crap tune with a good loop in it. I think.
Posted: Fri Feb 06, 2009 8:27 am
by wub
nowaysj wrote:mr ads wrote:
However it’s hard fighting the temptation, particularly when you haven’t been producing long and one loop can add so much to your tune. One of my favourite tracks I’ve made is based heavily round a loop, I’m trying not to use them but I can spend evenings messing around with hats and the like and get nowhere near the groove of a loop.
But my q remains, if the loop is so good, why didn't the dood that made the loop make a song?
What's to say he didn't, and then took the loop out to make something on the side?
Posted: Fri Feb 06, 2009 9:36 am
by skells
There is nothing wrong with using presets and common loops in a track if it works out. The only problem i have with it is that 99% of presets are shit or they just dont suit my track.
When i started producing i spent hours flicking through presets when i should have been chopping breaks layering drums or programming patches from scratch. Im getting much better sound now because i do it all by myself and my patchs suit my style. Every once in while i will sit down for an evening and just make sounds. Ableton makes it easy to save patchs and archive them.
Posted: Fri Feb 06, 2009 10:58 am
by rynke
"if it sounds good, why dont you just use it?" i couldnt agree less. I dont care what "big" producers do... I still think its pretty god damn weak to use some preset or loop that came with your DAW / Vst... Yes, maybe most acoustic guitars or any non-virtual-instrument have the same "preset", but it takes time to learn how to play the guitar, it doesnt take time to make up some melody in the paino roll. Like you have to learn how to play a guitar or piano or the drums or what ever in "real life", it takes time to learn how to make your own sounds on a computer. Talking about not being "original", its no where near original to use a preset or loop. (not talking bout sampled breaks here) For example, i'm currently working on this chilled out track, and yesterday i made a melody that would fit the track perfectly if it was played on an organ... I could have used the "dusty old organ" preset from Massive, but instead i made up my own organ patch, just by trying (took some time, but it was well worth it when i was done!) I actually thought most producers did this, but i guess i was wrong?
Posted: Fri Feb 06, 2009 11:30 am
by legend4ry
Know what? I couldn't give a bollocks if you know what preset I used, if it works for the tune, it works, companies spend A LOT of money to get sound designers to make presets for them, so they obviously know what they're doing.. I mean if you just pre-set hunt and download 9348290489 vsts to find the right sound you're doing it wrong cause it'll take less time and a bit of fucking around but if you already <know> how to get the sound you want but "x" synth has it already, why not? I mean its laziness but its not like you hunted ages to get that sound.. you just managed to find it already there..
With sample packs and that.. hardly any are very good - I feel sorry for people who buy sample CDs other than the vengeance and the odd loop-master.. Sure shaping your own sounds is all well and good and you can go "Yeahh I made that sound using a few knifes and a tonne weight dropping on small garden creatures" while you check if your pocket protector is in the right place and your shirts tucked in and trousers are up to your nipples. I sample a lot of real kicks but I also use a lot of electronic kicks from sample packs, sue me if thats 'wrong'
We make dubstep (maybe not primarily) and it (well used to, its a bit vivvid these days) lives/ed by the .. "Sandbox" attitude where we do it how we want, when we want at around 140bpm with nuts sub bass what makes people think they're being jugged by warm sound it hits them so hard at the club.
Don't make you can't take it seriously and shape your own sounds and that but if you give someone a bollocking for using a preset on a synth you have you're kinda breaking the unwritten code, conforming onto the idea where you have learn synthesis for a million years and sample all your own sounds....Or get a USB mic and sample your voice so we can all be like Mr Rusko(no offense to the bloke) and dance in a field all happy.
EDIT: Lol corrected a years old typo
Posted: Fri Feb 06, 2009 11:30 am
by zgomot
Rynke wrote:"if it sounds good, why dont you just use it?" i couldnt agree less. I dont care what "big" producers do... I still think its pretty god damn weak to use some preset or loop ... For example, i'm currently working on this chilled out track, and yesterday i made a melody that would fit the track perfectly if it was played on an organ... I could have used the "dusty old organ" preset from Massive, but instead i made up my own organ patch, just by trying (took some time, but it was well worth it when i was done!) I actually thought most producers did this, but i guess i was wrong?
No offense, but
zgomot wrote:... sounds to me like pretentious wank...
Posted: Fri Feb 06, 2009 11:31 am
by miscreant
electronic music is based on stealing other peoples samples and loops - its what happens. the way to get away with it is to take those samples and loops and make them your own.
Someone said earlier in the post that it is nearly impossible to create as smooth flowing drums as a looped break with single hits - i agree. Fair do's to anyone who can but anyone who says that using breaks is cheating is talking shite - i dont see any difference between me loading up a ukalele sample into pro tools and cutting it up and shit or if i was to load the same sample into an mpc and play it out by hitting a few buttons - essentially i'm doing the same thing - Stealing someone elses work and using it to create my own. I'm happy with that, if i ever got anything signed i would definitely give credit to the sources from where i had sampled.
Posted: Fri Feb 06, 2009 11:38 am
by legend4ry
I kinda went on a rant..
Basically I meant.
Fuck your elitism (not directed at anyone, just a general statement)and everyone just do their own thing, the way it was a few years ago..
Posted: Fri Feb 06, 2009 11:44 am
by zgomot
Legendary wrote:I kinda went on a rant..
Basically I meant.
Fuck your elitism and everyone just do their own thing, the way it was a few years ago..
This is where the thread ends. Everything being said from this point forward is redundant and futile.
Posted: Fri Feb 06, 2009 11:52 am
by rendr
nowaysj wrote:
I Just can't use loops. I've got nothing against it, intellectually. I just can't do it. It's like
masturbating in public.
Posted: Fri Feb 06, 2009 11:53 am
by zgomot
Rendr wrote:
I just can't do it. It's like
masturbating in public.
So you've never done it? Aaawh, man, you're missing out.
Posted: Fri Feb 06, 2009 11:58 am
by rendr
zgomot wrote:nowaysj wrote:
I just can't do it. It's like
masturbating in public.
So you've never done it? Aaawh, man, you're missing out.
I've rapped a girls coat around my leg and then let her dog mount it and bust all over the coat for a laugh. ...does that count?
Posted: Fri Feb 06, 2009 12:04 pm
by zgomot
Rendr wrote:
I've rapped a girls coat around my leg and then let her dog mount it and bust all over the coat for a laugh. ...does that count?
Ehmm, I guess...
Posted: Fri Feb 06, 2009 12:07 pm
by legend4ry
zgomot wrote:Rendr wrote:
I've rapped a girls coat around my leg and then let her dog mount it and bust all over the coat for a laugh. ...does that count?
Ehmm, I guess...
Thats thats just......... wrong
Posted: Fri Feb 06, 2009 1:25 pm
by rynke
zgomot wrote:Rynke wrote:"if it sounds good, why dont you just use it?" i couldnt agree less. I dont care what "big" producers do... I still think its pretty god damn weak to use some preset or loop ... For example, i'm currently working on this chilled out track, and yesterday i made a melody that would fit the track perfectly if it was played on an organ... I could have used the "dusty old organ" preset from Massive, but instead i made up my own organ patch, just by trying (took some time, but it was well worth it when i was done!) I actually thought most producers did this, but i guess i was wrong?
No offense, but
zgomot wrote:... sounds to me like pretentious wank...
hehe, yeah i know
But it was really the best example i could think of. I just cant help getting pissed off about peoples attitude "its alright i didnt make half my track - but hey it sounds good". As i said earlier... Its E-Jay business if you ask me...
Posted: Sat Feb 07, 2009 4:00 am
by brey
...Can anyone say Polow Da Don?