Dubstepforum.com

magma wrote:

hugh wrote:yes but the fastest split time generally shows how good a swimmer is. She beat Phelps' and Lochte's fastest lap time, despite being several years younger, about a foot and a couple of inches smaller and having much much smaller feet and smaller lungs and a smaller heart. To deny that it is suspicious is just naive.

This reminds me a lot of conspiracy theorist logic...

1. We have suspicion.
2. We did tests. No evidence.
3. We refuse to let go of suspicion.
4. We find as much circumstantial "evidence" to suggest it's "suspicious"
5. We test again. No evidence.
6. We still refuse to let go of suspicion.

It's the same logic as behind 9/11 as a false flag or men never going to the Moon! Don't play yourselves, guys... I'm sure the doping authority will eventually find out if anything went on. In the mean time, all your achieving is encouraging more people into the angry mob bullying a teenage girl. She's got a gold medal to be proud of at the age of 16... to try and take that glory away from a schoolgirl without any proper evidence is utterly disgusting.

It's not comparable at all because the way drug tests work is that they can only detect drugs that have established procedures for detecting positives. This is made all the more difficult by the fact China keeps very close guard on a lot of it's work in pharmaceutics and nobody really knows what they may have already developed beyond currently-testable means.Yes it's very good for her and well done and blah di blah blah but the fact is history is the judge. If in 10 years time it turns out yes she did it 100% legit and there was absolutely no doping/drug taking going on then fantastic. But until that point there will always be suspicions. That's the way drugs work and that's the way sport works. There's no bullying here either, this is high level sport, things like this happen. You have to take the rough with the smooth if you want to stay at the top level. If she consistently improves from this point out and dominates for the next few years then I am sure people will get over it. However, if she suddenly goes off the radar I can comfortably say why.

magma wrote:

pkay wrote:Barry bonds and mark mcgwire never tested positive up to crushing the USA hone run record but obviously did

If its too good to be true...

With all of those, we're happy to accept negative test results. Why not with a Chinese swimmer? They're all utter freaks, why single her out?

BECAUSE SHE IS 16 AND FEMALE

I ain't no sexist, but fucking hell, if people didn't react with suspicion that would be confusing. To win by SUCH a large margin at such a young age, beating men with years more experience and time to condition their bodies to achieve the best possible results is suspicious. At the age of 16 the body is still developing, muscles are still growing. It's absurd to say this isn't suspicious.

If she won but it was within reasonable circumstances, i.e NOT by such a large gap, then people would've been more accepting. It's not as if China don't have a massive chip on their shoulder either. More bad news came today when that badminton couple got disqualified too.

pkay wrote:You're not reading magma. I'm skeptical of all of them. More so when you suddenly go from 14th in the world to the best that ever lived

I don't think hope solo should be playing for the USA women's soccer team as she tested positive for a banned masking agent

Testing positive is rather different to testing negative.

Twice.

Perej wrote:

magma wrote:

pkay wrote:Barry bonds and mark mcgwire never tested positive up to crushing the USA hone run record but obviously did

If its too good to be true...

With all of those, we're happy to accept negative test results. Why not with a Chinese swimmer? They're all utter freaks, why single her out?

BECAUSE SHE IS 16 AND FEMALE

I ain't no sexist, but fucking hell, if people didn't react with suspicion that would be confusing. To win by SUCH a large margin at such a young age, beating men with years more experience and time to condition their bodies to achieve the best possible results is suspicious. At the age of 16 the body is still developing, muscles are still growing. It's absurd to say this isn't suspicious.

If she won but it was within reasonable circumstances, i.e NOT by such a large gap, then people would've been more accepting. It's not as if China don't have a massive chip on their shoulder either. More bad news came today when that badminton couple got disqualified too.

I agree it's suspicious UP UNTIL YOU TEST THEM AND THEY COME BACK NEGATIVE TWICE.

From that point onwards it's paranoia. I'm not sure who benefits from any of this... she feels shit about being born too talented and not pretty enough, the world makes itself angry about something it can't prove.

It'd be funny if it didn't all boil down to adults bullying a child.

magma wrote:

pkay wrote:You're not reading magma. I'm skeptical of all of them. More so when you suddenly go from 14th in the world to the best that ever lived

I don't think hope solo should be playing for the USA women's soccer team as she tested positive for a banned masking agent

Testing positive is rather different to testing negative.

Twice.

only if the participant is known to only have access to known and controlled substances. I'll repeat myself.
You can't test for unknown substances. There are strict guidelines and ISO processes that drug testing has to adhere to and can only account for documented and already banned substances. As the database is always lagging behind the actual current science by about 5-10 years, most drug cheats are actually never caught because they are "ahead of the game".

hugh wrote:only if the participant is known to only have access to known and controlled substances. I'll repeat myself.
You can't test for unknown substances. There are strict guidelines and ISO processes that drug testing has to adhere to and can only account for documented and already banned substances. As the database is always lagging behind the actual current science by about 5-10 years, most drug cheats are actually never caught because they are "ahead of the game".

Well, then why not suspect everyone and just not watch?

What a defeatist world view.

Theres a difference between suspecting (which everyone on the planet should) and calling her out in public which is what the American did

magma wrote:

hugh wrote:only if the participant is known to only have access to known and controlled substances. I'll repeat myself.
You can't test for unknown substances. There are strict guidelines and ISO processes that drug testing has to adhere to and can only account for documented and already banned substances. As the database is always lagging behind the actual current science by about 5-10 years, most drug cheats are actually never caught because they are "ahead of the game".

Well, then why not suspect everyone and just not watch?

What a defeatist world view.

because not everyone is a 16 year old girl beating the world record by 2.5 seconds and in the process beating the lap times of the fastest Male athletes. It's not defeatist. It's logic. You are being shown up so are just attacking some random aspect of my personality.

southstar wrote:Theres a difference between suspecting (which everyone on the planet should) and calling her out in public which is what the American did

I agree 100% that this was out of order, it is not a coach's place to do this. These things should be kept behind the scenes because I can guarantee you there would have been a response even if he didn't have his little whiney-bitching session about it. Drugs testers aren't stupid.

When I was on probation for five years I was tested monthly. I ate pills I knew would not show up on their tests or took masking agents that wouldn't show up on tests.

Not same level of testing but same principle

Ye magma maet ur sounding like a right bellend innit

I was under the impression that everyone who wins a medal is being tested??

give them all drugs it would be much more fun.

They should introduce H1 NMR testing on Athlete's urine/blood. It would catch some weird shit out, but at the moment it's all indicators and recrystallisation and blood counts. But Science has made a big leap the past few years in using NMR to test patients for alcohol poisoning etc. and I think it will start to be used in athletics soon too. It will catch almost everything.

They should have a seperate games where drug taking is allowed. I'd love to see a 10 year old with 6ft legs run the 100m in 5 seconds...

hugh wrote:because not everyone is a 16 year old girl beating the world record by 2.5 seconds and in the process beating the lap times of the fastest Male athletes. It's not defeatist. It's logic. You are being shown up so are just attacking some random aspect of my personality.

How am I being shown up? I'm attempting to defend a schoolgirl who's performed an incredible feat, has been tested to the best of the Olympics abilities and is still being bullied by people who had never heard of her a week ago.

Her blood samples will continue to be tested for 8 years, so the likelyhood is if she did cheat, she will be found out eventually. In the meantime, I think it's probably nicest to let her have her glory moment.

I realise this is an immensely controversial viewpoint!

But, carry on however you wish. I'm sure picking on a little girl is making everyone's day better. I shall retreat in case my posts start to exhibit signs of thesaurus misuse.

shut up magma!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

On a happier note:-


WIGGO
WIGGO
WIGGO

wiggo a badman

no, carry on, magma ...

this is farcical ... you can't tell who's used drugs from your fucking armchair ... yes, lots of them aren't caught, but we don't know which ones ... if you had a rule that extraordinary performances triggered disqualification, doped athletes would adjust to avoid that rule ... and it would disqualify some non-doped ones, because some of them are freaks ... especially the very best.

either accept the results as they stand, or stop watching. (or start a rival games where all drugs are allowed - the narcolympics.)