Dubstepforum.com

can't listen to these tunes right now. we talking old zomby / ikonika etc?

hubb posted slugabed and loops haunt. iirc that stuff came after hyperdub went all wonky

ultraspatial wrote:@hubb re: wonky dubstep
that stuff was too maximalist and only marginally related to dubstep to really appeal to the heads and too weird for brosteppers imo
always thought the target audience for that sound was more "bass music" via idm types

Sure but a worthy direction as opposed to IMO where it went.
I prefer that kind of adventurous 'maximalism' (eventhough I find that term odd or subjective in this context when the bro bits are undoubtably and essentially closer to that 'sentiment'.
But yeah I can see how your distinction makes sence, I just refuse to call what's left anything other than garage/twostep. I mean when you take out the bro and dungeon.

i didn't mean maximalist as a derogatory term. just that those type of tunes had a lot of things going on

fair

but thats what you get when you run into an idiot like me that is oppossed to both minimalism and maximalism

minimalism is safe and maximalism is naiive

what do you mean by "safe" tho?

i think the terms are actually a bit misused, especially minimal. like is a dubstep or techno or w/e tune still minimal if it has vocal samples, percs & synths on top? or in villalobos' tunes; so much stuff going on but it feels minimal. and i guess it's more minimal than edm but is it really minimal? especially if you compare it to drone or static noise a la vomir

I mean in art or conceptualism terms

waffle/rant:

I find that minimalism apart from being the go to 'good taste measure' in most classicism (and therefor in general, historically) can be very a safe direction when it's the almost aerodynamic kind where everything that could interfere is just cut off on the basis that you want to present something simplistic or 'non-confused', or even shallow.

Intent takes balls, and if an artist wants to hide away behind an 808 or a monochrome layout in all his drawings (imo), then theres a chance that guy didn't have anything to share to begin with.

No doubt prejudice on my part, but I think there's some sence in there..

kalawanjii is just a wobbler like roll with the punches is just a tune from bristol

ye yeeeeeeeeee

feels like the invasion of iraq when it drops

[+] Spoiler

imo, fair to disagree

@hubb i think it goes both ways really. you can't say one is more gimmick-y than the other

sure, minimalism is a sure way to get music journos on your side and pass off as classy, smart because you're showing restraint or w/e. but then again the same people probably sing praises to artificial intelligence, aphex twin , lfo etc

on the other hand of the spectrum there's the idea that if you want a hit or a banger you need to go all bigger is better. get vocalists, big hooks, big synths, big studio, prepare a live set preferably with a live band or just loud & obnoxious a la jump up/tear out/brostep/edm

I dont think there's any on the other hand re:maximalism tbh, despite being of the belief that anything can be applied to dualism or atleast thought about in said terms... but that's probably down to minimalism being a term people appreciate being used as a sticker?

but.. not even in your post and Im not trying to be clever
(more than usually )

I mean there's no plane where you as the proprietor or artist or sender or whatever can really convince people that big won't become obnoxious or that grand isn't tacky .. do you know what I mean?

like fans of u2 know what they like is a bit 'much', pretentious or camp.. at least from my experience.

compare that with minimalist people that dont realize they are being fed.. .

...
I'd say maximalism is more of a straight up gimmick per se, because you add extra bits that might not fit making the 'whole'.
The point was talking safe and gimmicky can be risky.
But you are spot on in pointing to gimmicky, because it's in a way safe not to use gimmicks and in another way safe to use them, relating to who your aiming the output at. My point then becomes, saying that stripping something down to it's essence without gimmicks , is a bit safe in the sence that everybody have already agreed on the premise and accepted the elements.

Its all a thought construct mostly ofcourse but there's something to it..

i get what you're saying
but i think it really depends on what scene you're talking about & from what perspective. the minimalism of punk was/is seen as childish/immature. trap rappers as dumb, ignorant & talentless etc etc

i think the sort of sense of superiority of minimalism comes from the fact that it's reactionary.

like having a "minimal" lifestyle can be perceived as less wasteful when it comes to resources - also cheaper & faster if we're talking about architecture (see post-war brutalism) - in the face of rampant consumerism

if we're talking about movies, stuff like my dinner with andre, locke, maybe drive or before sunrise etc is seen as being smarter and less gimmicky than "the usual hollywood fodder" cause they're more focused on characters and dialogue instead of action and special effects

if it's music, it depends
if it's punk it's a return to "real" rock n roll compared to the prog rock trend at the time it appeared. and this sort of resistance towards prog pretty much applies to anything rock/metal with "old school" in front
if it's electronic music it's more deep/classy/headsy/intelligent/restrained

etc etc

tbh by now both are gimmicks, but then again anything is a gimmick now

just that one has more backlash than the other

RKM wrote:kalawanjii is just a wobbler like roll with the punches is just a tune from bristol

ye yeeeeeeeeee

feels like the invasion of iraq when it drops

[+] Spoiler

imo, fair to disagree

Kalawanji to me seems very uninspired. considering other '05/'06 tunes, Kalawanji has aged very poorly. there are a lot of tunes in a similar vein that are older, yet either sound better by today's standard (RWTP arguably features the heaviest sub in a dubstep record to date, with very basic FL leads on top that somehow manage to not sound shit, plus there's the progression throughout the tune keeping it interesting) or, still within the dubstep mainframe, are more creative, bold or forwardthinking (some old Tectonic comes to mind). I can appreciate Kalawanji as a banger from the past, but hearing it out doesn't do anything for me. more filler than killer. to put it more provocatively, there are so many better "oldschool tunes" out there, why draw for a sub-par sounding repetitive halfstep wobbler?

edit: there's nothing wrong with liking this record, I love a lot of music that I aren't forwardthinking / bold / creative or that sound worse than others from the same period of time. Kalawanji just isn't one of them.

[quote]i think the sort of sense of superiority of minimalism comes from the fact that it's reactionary.[quote]

yeah

If you claim to like dance music, not sure you can ever use "repetitive" as a negative description.

garethom wrote:If you claim to like dance music, not sure you can ever use "repetitive" as a negative description.

This to a certain extent

garethom wrote:If you claim to like dance music, not sure you can ever use "repetitive" as a negative description.

cheeky.

repetition as a tool is good. a repetitive tune is (most likely) boring. I can't name one tune without any kind of progression I like, yet most electronic tunes I love strongly build on repetition. it's all about what elements you chose to repeat, in what order etc. think Basic Channel's arrangements. they constantly evolve, shift elements from front to back, apply effects and reduce them again etc.

reduction can be a good thing aswell. reduce it to unprocessed, straight 808 kicks though and you've got a really boring "tune" on your hands.

baited by gareth. never thought I'd see the day.