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..and if religion can somehow power or justify this, it is failing.



Unless of course - I'm missing the whole point by trying to idealize religion in some new age hippy way..

In which case, I may be an infantile infidel.

..or lacking in proper breeding or something

gotta watch that bad tree you know...knowledge of it brings Cain.

bright maroon wrote:..and if religion can somehow power or justify this, it is failing.



Unless of course - I'm missing the whole point by trying to idealize religion in some new age hippy way..

In which case, I may be an infantile infidel.

..or lacking in proper breeding or something

gotta watch that bad tree you know...knowledge of it brings Cain.

Meh, I'm indifferent to religion. I agree in the sense that it has certainly and will continue to lead to fucked up shit, but it's not like most people choose to start following for negative reasons...

A lot of parents just want to provide a wholesome community for their kids to part of, organized religion is not WHOLLY fucked up. I could never be part of one, though.

any position of potential influence is going to have negative influences flooding it like moths to light. it doesn't make light bad because it attracts moths. the government isn't evil just because the forces operating the highest echelons are fundamentally evil. commerce isn't evil just because the corporate behemoth that dominates the world economy is evil.

scum just floats to the top. it's an alchemical process of the collective unconscious projecting the unidentified, unhealed trauma into the global theater.

ok fine - hate the game not the player

or in this particular case - the playing field.

Even if it has been manipulated to serve the games purpose.

there's lots of religion out there. not all of it is used for evil.

parson wrote:or maybe it is human nature to fight over arbitrary differences

http://www.spring.org.uk/2007/09/war-pe ... herifs.php

btw i pulled that link from this list of list of psychological experiments that explain why we're retarded
http://www.spring.org.uk/2007/11/10-pie ... nature.php

Oh, I am a huge fan of religion.

I look to alot of them for different things...

I love the movie Spring, Summer, Fall, Winter, Spring.

was just thinkin bout that movie a few hours ago.

buddhism can be pretty fucked up too though.

what - the detachment part..

religion is a nice way of saying mainstream occult. deeper you dig into any of them, you'll find the same things.

bright maroon wrote:what - the detachment part..

nah not the philosophy. the institution.

you mean - people in trivial/mindless ritual

or the college part of it...the educated insider/outsider institutional part..

I read this one Buddhist story that frightened me to the core...

It was about this guy who was on a pilgrimage to visit every shrine in the country - and in this one temple he saw a photo of a girl who was in an unhappy marriage..

so, he stayed on a few days at the shrine because he was entranced..and to make a long story short - they both drowned..

simultaneously and seperatly.



I thought it could be just be a method of escape perpetuated by the monks -
but it also speaks of something darker..

..should make a seperate thread for this...is muddling the palestinian/zionist thread..

bright maroon wrote:you mean - people in trivial/mindless ritual

or the college part of it...the educated insider/outsider institutional part..

corruption in the political aspects of the institution

(Pada) wrote:

Genevieve wrote:

hackman wrote:on a moral basis
i wasn't advocating killing Israelis, just saying it's going to happen through their own fault, and that the people that do it will be justified

Violence is never justified unless it's out of direct self-defense. Israeli who were born there who are in no way apart of the conflict do not deserve to die for the actions of their government. Just like the people in the WTC did not deserve to die because Bill Clinton's administration thought it was a good idea to run the Middle East. Nor does the Bill Clinton administration deserve to die, either.

Was going to post a reply but you said it all for me, cheers.

so the palestinians won't be killing israelis out of direct self defence?

lost relatives in palestine, been there, seen the shit.

no more too say, than: go there, have a look, just look around! talk with the (remaining) people!
i'm not going to say f.... israel or alike... not my style.

but this state is sickening me.

I think people make too much of the religious differences between Israelis and Palestinians. A lot of Israelis aren't very religious and the same is true of a lot of Palestinians (who aren't all Muslims by any stretch). It’s mainly a political struggle. The same was true in Northern Ireland.

Israel has to learn to live with its neighbours and its neighbours have to learn to live with Israel. There was nothing inevitable about the Jewish disapora ending up in the Middle East but that's what's happened and they're not going anywhere.

The Palestinian people are caught in the middle of a struggle between regional powers - used as pawns by Israel / US / UK, Egypt, Syria, Iran and extremist political groups in their own population. They deserve better but they won't get it until the various established countries in the Middle East cut the propaganda and start talking business.

Of course, Israel building EVEN MORE settlements in occupied zones isn’t helping anyone as the US government has told them in no uncertain terms this week.

parson wrote:blaming religion for human nature is a copout.

Parson knows.

hackman wrote:

(Pada) wrote:

Genevieve wrote:

hackman wrote:on a moral basis
i wasn't advocating killing Israelis, just saying it's going to happen through their own fault, and that the people that do it will be justified

Violence is never justified unless it's out of direct self-defense. Israeli who were born there who are in no way apart of the conflict do not deserve to die for the actions of their government. Just like the people in the WTC did not deserve to die because Bill Clinton's administration thought it was a good idea to run the Middle East. Nor does the Bill Clinton administration deserve to die, either.

Was going to post a reply but you said it all for me, cheers.

so the palestinians won't be killing israelis out of direct self defence?

You might kill a soldier out of self defence, but not a civilian.

everyone, male and female is in israel part of the army, unless he says no and goes to prison for not serving his country

don't get me wrong... i don't support at all the killing of any civilians.