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I am a sentimental person, but I have no sentiment towards the format of vinyl.

But vinyls imperfections as a format are what make it sound so good.

and

I love sampling off of vinyl. LOVE IT. You put a vinyl sample next to a clean sample... fuget about it, vinyl every time.

And that an mp3 sounds better than vinyl... oh my god... I would face palm u, but instead I'm going to wish a pox upon your family

This is right down my road.

I have just gone and set up a label. I have also just registered as a functioning business.

I had to consider all this shizzle too and decided to go down the route of during the first year have 3 album releases by 3 different artists. Digital and Hardcopy CD.

Then late July 2011, I want to release vinyl and from then onwards only vinyl. Use digital and CD's low set up costs and pressing costs to try and produce some sort of revenue to pump back in and start pressing vinyl.

I agree with most people, getting a Cd release or digital release isn't have as impressive or establishing as a vinyl release.

I've been holding off replying to this thread.. cos it kinda is a can of worms for me, but I got some longer files exporting anyway... so...


On the one hand - I totally agree about the rush of releasing on vinyl. My first wax was a big rush - but then again, it was also a rush because it was my first proper release on a label. So to be honest, I don't know how easy it is to differentiate the two, but all I know is that it felt pretty cool. However, Paradigm X makes a great point - the excitement from the community does fade. I dropped a 12" (with large remixes) that stirred up some hype, with beautiful full artwork.. etc etc... but time moves on and people forget (and its only been 5 or 6 years). It reminds me about that scene in the documentary "Scratch" where they show DJ Shadow in that record store basement with hundreds of thousands of records and he talks about how humbling it is because no matter how dope anyone thinks they are, eventually they are going to be adding to that pile of broken dreams.

I also agree about the nostalgia angle.. and while I have never been a vinyl DJ, I still like buying vinyl and I like the way it feels, sounds and smells. However, much to my surprise - I have also found that digital files can hold nostalgia. For instance - I have a bunch of tracks (both released and unreleased) that have been sent to me by various artists... while they are technically a 'cold, easily duplicated' file... they mean a lot to me because they were given to me directly from the artist. There is nothing special or unique about those groups of 1's and 0's... but even files can have sentiment added to them.

Finally - one issue I wanted to touch on (because it is relevant to me right now) - is to touch on the whole added kudos because of the expense of producing vinyl and the added belief/trust in the music that must precede it. Again - I completely agree ... but what I haven't seen mentioned yet, is the feeling of personal responsibility/liability that can accompany it. Lets be honest - even the 'bigger' labels in the EDM scene are still relatively small compared to the majors. If you release on any label - most likely you will develop a relationship with the people behind it. Indie labels aren't faceless corporations that magically get you started - they are people who sink a lot of money into what they love, and often lose money because of it. So when you know they have dumped even more money into a vinyl release rather than a cd or mp3 release... I have always felt more responsible. I don't want anyone to lose their shirt just because something didn't sell well.

For instance - as many of you know, my 12" on Spectraliquid came out a few months ago... but you would be easily forgiven for missing it, because it hasn't been in many shops. This is due to the fact that the label is in Greece and the financial situation there has pretty much screwed everyone. Well, the label had already paid for vinyl, custom full artwork, the whole lot... but because of the situation, they can't afford to send the records to distros (so mainly it is available on their own site, but that is limited traffic). I feel terrible - it's not my fault Greece's economy has failed and no one has been getting paid for ages, but they did sink in a whole lot more money into a risky venture for me (it was their first attempt at vinyl)... and had this been a cd (let alone an mp3), they wouldn't be out so much money. I pushed for vinyl, I pushed for custom art, I pushed for special packaging (recycled cardboard for extra texture)... Maybe I wouldn't care if it were Sony or EMI... but Spectraliquid is a small outfit run by some of the nicest people I have ever dealt with in the business. It is hard not to care or feel guilty when the people losing money are your friends.


So while I do still get more excited about physical releases... I do agree that there has to be some way of making digital releases more appealing. I know that the convenience of them has already sold me a few times over, but perhaps there are other ways to go even further. Special access to other files is one way... but perhaps there is something even more. I just haven't figured it out yet.

Re shadow in the record shop - exactly, but look, those records ended up somewhere, somewhere where someone else can discover them, and twist them, and make more music. That is beautiful don't you think?

Mp3 don't end up anywhere. They just disappear. There is no feedback. All the 1's turn to 0's and all is lost.

Re the overhead and responsibility of vinyl, exactly! That's the point. Vinyl now represents a commitment, a dedication to the quality of the product that digital releases (and I'm talking about mp3 releases) can avoid. I mean, come on, a lot of good music is released digitally, but vinyl means people believe (truly, because money is involved ) in the product.

nowaysj--

I don't disagree with you... just bringing up some points for discussion.

I don't disagree with u

Just commenting on your comments!

art prints for first x amount of customers

Some really introspective, well thought out stuff in Mad Ep's post a few up - if you haven't read, READ!!!

it's also a matter of supporting an artist you dig
the lil ltd this or that are bonuses
hell i bought last flying lotus on wax, vinyl got digital giveaways from both and still paid for it in flac
the art print i got and the ltd foil cover on cd mean alot even if it's something so small

The material is strangely more persistent than the digital, which is theoretically ever lasting.

good post again matt.

This whole thing is a bit patronising, instantly lumping everything on a digital label is shite/no quality control because its easy and cheap and everything on vinyl is gold because its expensive. Some (most?) digital labels have very hard working people with a good ear for what they like, and high quality control.

The dearth of shite dnb on vinyl over the last ten years disputes this. The fact that its so hard to shift vinyl these days leaves people with no option (generally) to put out safe, sellable tunes. The more interesting/leftfield/odd tunes have virtually no chance of breaking even and thats where a good, quality controlled digital label is the only option.

Shame its not 15 years ago when even weird tunes could sell a thousand copies. But its not.

Think you are getting into the hateration on digital a little too much. There are other interesting issues at play.

Quite right. Ive said my piece now


On a more relevant level, I wonder how much the 'pay as much as you like' method would work for smaller, less known labels/artists. I know it works for the likes of NIN and radiohead, but theyve already got a huge fan base (paid for by their ex labels !)

I really like that model. Just for intellectual reasons. For lesser known artists, I def don't see it a as a way to make legit income.

But if you are stuck between going a full bore digi release and you're going to sell a 100 mp3's, vs going a pay what you like and you end up giving away a 1000 mp3's, 10% of which kick back... seems like the later is a better deal all around. Totally fantastical ratios there, but I would like to see some numbers from people trying this.

Also relative to this model is, I take a long time to determine value. If I buy 10 tracks, I might end up really listening to 2 of them. I'd like to be able to mega compensate those 2 and delete the other 8 punters altogether.

----

Another issue with digi releases and EDM is that a digi release shuts down vinyl only dj's as a means for the dissemination of your toons. It could be argued that dj's are very influential in deciding what is cool. A dj's endorsement (playing your toons) can mean a lot for your sales in the short term, and career in the long term. No?

nowaysj wrote:
Another issue with digi releases and EDM is that a digi release shuts down vinyl only dj's as a means for the dissemination of your toons. It could be argued that dj's are very influential in deciding what is cool. A dj's endorsement (playing your toons) can mean a lot for your sales in the short term, and career in the long term. No?

I think this makes sense a bit, but not so much in the context of EDM. Hip-hop or dancehall, this is definitely true, although both of those aren't purely club music, so you can still build a fanbase without vinyl releases (hip hop is just as much for home listening, and dancehall you can always cut dubplates). But it terms of EDM, it seems like dnb and dubstep are the last two genres to really take advantage of digital releases, Serato, Ableton, Traktor, etc...technology in general. But even with that being said, even if they're moving much more slowly than other genres, they're still moving in that direction, and you'll see a huge amount of the big guys using Serato or CDJs. That's also trickling down to the locals as well in a lot of places from my experience.


The times they are a changin'

Why would you want to make a mp3 more special? An mp3 is an mp3 if somebody wants to buy a quality product they place value in, then they should pay that little extra and buy a 12"/CD.

I only buy mp3s if its a tune im going to play for abit and then disgard of it... if its serious music then il invest in 12"/CD and if its not on vinyl then the artist/label obviously do not place enough value on it to bother getting in pressed... so why would i bother with it?

naus wrote:Why would you want to make a mp3 more special? An mp3 is an mp3 if somebody wants to buy a quality product they place value in, then they should pay that little extra and buy a 12"/CD.

I only buy mp3s if its a tune im going to play for abit and then disgard of it... if its serious music then il invest in 12"/CD and if its not on vinyl then the artist/label obviously do not place enough value on it to bother getting in pressed... so why would i bother with it?

totally the flip
i have loads of disposable releases on vinyl and have found quality tunes i still play to this day only on digital
maybe it's age, maybe it's subjective, but format doesn't make a tune better

naus wrote:Why would you want to make a mp3 more special? An mp3 is an mp3 if somebody wants to buy a quality product they place value in, then they should pay that little extra and buy a 12"/CD.

Why?

Because vinyl releases are becoming much less common, and will likely either stay this way or diminish further. It's a safe assumption that many folks on this board may never have a vinyl release - compare this to 2000 where ALL singles were released on vinyl.

SO

If many people are going to be releasing tunes on digital - is it not worth having a conversation about how we can have the same sentimentality attached to digital releases as physical?

its never gonna happen.

IMO

contakt321 wrote:

naus wrote:Why would you want to make a mp3 more special? An mp3 is an mp3 if somebody wants to buy a quality product they place value in, then they should pay that little extra and buy a 12"/CD.

Why?

Because vinyl releases are becoming much less common, and will likely either stay this way or diminish further. It's a safe assumption that many folks on this board may never have a vinyl release - compare this to 2000 where ALL singles were released on vinyl.

SO

If many people are going to be releasing tunes on digital - is it not worth having a conversation about how we can have the same sentimentality attached to digital releases as physical?

Two things:

1] Its not a safe assumption that "many folks on this forum may never have a vinyl release." - I would say its the opposite. I would assume many people on this forum have wax.

2] I think the Mp3 is going to be something different to different people. Ultimately its a product you want to sell right ? You are in business for yourself right ? So you are interested in creating long lasting relationship with your customer. You want a life long fan of your music right ? So that single Mp3 you are selling should be part of the experience packaged with other features and benefits of the Mp3. I believe the key is to include digital and real world swag that pull your customer in to your world. you want to entertain people right ? You are an artist wanting to make a living right ? So to do that you have to have regular audience and you have to go beyond what that audience might expect. Sell me an Mp3 that will give me the option of getting other cool swag with that. Sell me something that will keep me busy listening to your music and wanting more because now i'm a fan. You just went out of your way to give me more than I expected. Music is a personal thing anyway. People are tactile too. We like to get up and dance to our music while we wash dishes or whatever. See what I mean ? you as an artist have a great opportunity to do something special with your fare... make it special and you might get a loyal fan that will buy anything you release.