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Buy my vinyl and CD and FLAC, free to download all my mp3's. I hope this keeps people from seeding wav or flac's.

I really don't mind. Support? I don't know any producer in my genre making enough money by record sales.

So my question is; Does anybody here make enough money from their tunes to pay the rent.

I look at it this way; it was a fun ride, asking money for reproduced music (read mp3, cd, vinyl etc). It's over now, back to gigging for pay. Or use your skills in tv/film/games/online media.

i might sound utterly idealistic and naive here, and i can already hear the "professionals" (ie label owners, released artists) flaming me for what i'm about to say (obviously it only applies to pirating music/movies, agreed softwares are a different thing)

but who decided "artists" (i dont really like that word but...) should get paid for their "art" ? you're probably gonna say this is the opinion of a hobbyist/bedroom producer but i'm happy enough to make music just cause i like doing it, fuck it sounds probably like a walt disney cliche, but its enough reward for me if someone goes out of its way to just listen to my shit, not to mention how aroused i am when someone leaves a positive comment on my soundcloud or in some thread i spammed my crap in...

in the end the real question is : why should art be a product that can be bought or sold ?

feel free to call me gay for using the word "art" on dsf

dfaultuzr wrote:i might sound utterly idealistic and naive here, and i can already hear the "professionals" (ie label owners, released artists) flaming me for what i'm about to say (obviously it only applies to pirating music/movies, agreed softwares are a different thing)

but who decided "artists" (i dont really like that word but...) should get paid for their "art" ? you're probably gonna say this is the opinion of a hobbyist/bedroom producer but i'm happy enough to make music just cause i like doing it, fuck it sounds probably like a walt disney cliche, but its enough reward for me if someone goes out of its way to just listen to my shit, not to mention how aroused i am when someone leaves a positive comment on my soundcloud or in some thread i spammed my crap in...

in the end the real question is : why should art be a product that can be bought or sold ?

feel free to call me gay for using the word "art" on dsf

One of my biggest gripes about the record industry complaining about artists getting defrauded is along these lines...

When the first caveman or woman made the first music, say, banging on a log with a rock - they likely did it for their own enjoyment and for the enjoyment of others in some ratio. There wasn't an intermediary - there was no agent or go-through named Murray or Swifty or Lefty or whatever involved in the process at all: it was just the musician and the audience and a very blurry line between them probably. To insist that these intermediaries are an inherent part of the process is just BULLSHIT. The record company slime cry bloody murder; "Oh! You're raping the artist!" But the fact is they're only mad because they've been making a living off of raping the artist for decades and true to mafiosi everywhere, are pissed because they're not getting their ill-gotten cut of the loot.

Music came before capitalism, and it's incredibly foolhardy to allow the two to become inextricably tangled in any way. Commodification of art ironically devalues it.

That said: I would love it if I could make a living off my music, but even so - I would (and do) continue to pay money to make music as well, because I have to. Money is something we're all forced to deal with... music, on the other hand, is a voluntary choice.

TL;DR.

Skipped to page FOUR.

Not this thread again. . . . . I makes wobbles with my pirated FL.

Dear futures_untold
Thankyou for doing a year's worth of coursework for me!

My pleasure.

But be warned.

The real satisfaction and success comes from putting the time and effort in to expand your own skills. The excitement kicks in when something finally clicks and and you feel like your advancing because you've finalyl uncovered a technique or bit of knowledge that connects the last dots.

Learning your chosen vocation should be 90% fun and 10% pure graft. If not you're in the wrong vocation!

Interesting topic, good input.

Piracy is something I have a lot to say about, however...

The title of the post contains the words 'Piracy' and 'Effect', and all I can think about is a plug-in that enables you to make 'YAAAR' bass instead of 'YOI' bass.

It's been a long day.

futures_untold wrote:My pleasure.

But be warned.

The real satisfaction and success comes from putting the time and effort in to expand your own skills. The excitement kicks in when something finally clicks and and you feel like your advancing because you've finalyl uncovered a technique or bit of knowledge that connects the last dots.

Learning your chosen vocation should be 90% fun and 10% pure graft. If not you're in the wrong vocation!

Sorry you had to waste your time writing that but here it is...

I'm 15 years old, doing a mandatory course of Citizenship, worth only half a GCSE.

I couldn't care less how this work is done for me...


I do want to teach music technology when I "grow up"

dfaultuzr wrote:but who decided "artists" (i dont really like that word but...) should get paid for their "art" ?

Well, that's simple. Whoever is willing to buy it.

zerbaman wrote:Dear futures_untold
Thankyou for doing a year's worth of coursework for me!

zerbaman wrote: I couldn't care less how this work is done for me...

That's the spirit!!


(Sorry, no offense, but it was chuckle worthy)

alphacat wrote:Music came before capitalism

I agree with everything you say, as always, but I'm trying really hard here - to the extent that capitalism, at its core, is an expression of the laws of thermodynamics, I'm going with capitalism came first. Then again, oscillation may be prior, in which case, again, you're 100% correct.

zerbaman wrote:

futures_untold wrote:My pleasure.

But be warned.

The real satisfaction and success comes from putting the time and effort in to expand your own skills. The excitement kicks in when something finally clicks and you feel like your advancing because you've finally uncovered a technique or bit of knowledge that connects the last dots.

Learning your chosen vocation should be 90% fun and 10% pure graft. If not you're in the wrong vocation!

Sorry you had to waste your time writing that but here it is...

I'm 15 years old, doing a mandatory course of Citizenship, worth only half a GCSE.

I couldn't care less how this work is done for me...

I do want to teach music technology when I "grow up"

It's good when life is made easier, yet my point still stands. GCSE's have no bearing on success and enjoyment in the long run, but focussed energy and self directed learning do. If somebody doesn't enjoy what they do, they're dragging themselves unneccessarily through life in a way that could be more fun if they focussed their energies on subjects they actually enjoy.

Wanting to teach music tech is a good goal and one that can begin straight away by helping others learn about music tech when they ask you questions about it.

Here's some music tech questions that hopefully you'll enjoy answering for the sake of learning for yourself. (If you don't enjoy these sorts of questions my original point is still pertinent .)

What's Nyquist frequency?
What is a wavelet?
How does one explain phase?
Why is a delay important to music tech with regards to effects units?
How does a comparitor inside a compressor work?
etc etc

Good luck and have fun!

Patrick

futures_untold wrote:

zerbaman wrote:

futures_untold wrote:My pleasure.

But be warned.

The real satisfaction and success comes from putting the time and effort in to expand your own skills. The excitement kicks in when something finally clicks and you feel like your advancing because you've finally uncovered a technique or bit of knowledge that connects the last dots.

Learning your chosen vocation should be 90% fun and 10% pure graft. If not you're in the wrong vocation!

Sorry you had to waste your time writing that but here it is...

I'm 15 years old, doing a mandatory course of Citizenship, worth only half a GCSE.

I couldn't care less how this work is done for me...

I do want to teach music technology when I "grow up"

It's good when life is made easier, yet my point still stands. GCSE's have no bearing on success and enjoyment in the long run, but focussed energy and self directed learning do. If somebody doesn't enjoy what they do, they're dragging themselves unneccessarily through life in a way that could be more fun if they focussed their energies on subjects they actually enjoy.

Wanting to teach music tech is a good goal and one that can begin straight away by helping others learn about music tech when they ask you questions about it.

Here's some music tech questions that hopefully you'll enjoy answering for the sake of learning for yourself. (If you don't enjoy these sorts of questions my original point is still pertinent .)

What's Nyquist frequency?
What is a wavelet?
How does one explain phase?
Why is a delay important to music tech with regards to effects units?
How does a comparitor inside a compressor work?
etc etc

Good luck and have fun!

Patrick

It's the one subject I actually care about tbh. Love making music, love helping out new producers.
I'm not the most knowlegeable in terms of how things work, but I'm keen to learn and share my my findings!

Glad to here that bru.

Have fun

alphacat wrote:Music came before capitalism, and it's incredibly foolhardy to allow the two to become inextricably tangled in any way. Commodification of art ironically devalues it.

Out of interest, do you like a) Motown / classic soul and b) Studio One / vintage reggae?

slothrop wrote:

alphacat wrote:Music came before capitalism, and it's incredibly foolhardy to allow the two to become inextricably tangled in any way. Commodification of art ironically devalues it.

Out of interest, do you like a) Motown / classic soul and b) Studio One / vintage reggae?

I am (of course,) and I know where you're going with this (I think)...

And to be fair, profit has motivated some of the best recordings ever made: I understand that. There can be an economic component (as with all art) but it is not intrinsic or a critical part of the fundamental process. It can be, but it if it were gone good music would still exist. Incentivization comes from a lot of places besides money.

However, I'm also fairly confident that the bottom line in the greatness of these recordings was and always will be the musicians making them - even if they were greedy, got defrauded, whatever. Those guys could play, and when that happens people come knocking on your door for you to play on their records. The Studio One sound was established locally in soundsystem culture by Jamaicans who loved their music, and when more people caught on to how great they really were, that's when the money entered the situation and caused them to turn into a "hit factory."

The ideal for some might be a Sam Cooke type deal (who himself inspired Berry Gordy to start Motown) where the guy's talented first and a great businessman second.

Piracy makes the market harder I think, but the cream of the crop will always be profitable.

to be honest the music industry is well aware of pirates, but they still see it as publicity. At the end of the day if an artist has a fan base at all they'll still make the money they deserve through gigs tours festivals , you cant pirate a ticket

dfaultuzr wrote: in the end the real question is : why should art be a product that can be bought or sold ?

Things that are bought and sold-- everything from food to vegetables to stocks & futures-- have value to the person purchasing it.

If art, the creation of it and the pleasure, social interaction, personal insights, etc gained from it-- has no value for you, then there ya go.

If a society doesn't value something, it dies; if it does, it flourishes. Look at China w/ engineering, and look at Canada with arts & artists-- where it's even written ON THE MONEY "what a waste life would be without the arts."

So if you dont' value it, if your society doesn't value it, there's not much more of an argument to be made.

Piracy is overwhelming proof that people DO value music/movies, etc-- they're just sick of paying through the nose for it. Piracy's been good to focus how, and who, people consume the arts. Clearly a CD isn't actually worth $25-- but something with more value, ie a good live show, etc, is.