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AntlionUK wrote:As squatting is illegal i think the mods should lock this thread to keep in accordance with their own rules.

Squatting is at least a grey area when it comes to the law. Pretty sure its not strictly illegal. Also, stop being a bitch. Have no idea how people still think they have ANY rights in this forum.

Easy Laurent, obviously my views on squatting changed when I met Caff, was poorly informed/ stereotyping them - didnt really have an understanding before....for me its definitely a case by case thing tho - a lot of the time its not really affecting/ harming any individuals - this was on the road where I worked, had a chat with a few of them and they convinced me
http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/standard/ ... -banksy.do
this case however is just a man and his family getting fucked over hard which I'm not as keen on...
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... ds-newsxml

AntlionUK wrote:As squatting is illegal i think the mods should lock this thread to keep in accordance with their own rules.

Squatting is not illegal is unlawful AFAIK. It certainly is not illegal or a criminal offence. I can see why you get that impression though.

murky21 wrote:Easy Laurent, obviously my views on squatting changed when I met Caff, was poorly informed/ stereotyping them - didnt really have an understanding before....for me its definitely a case by case thing tho - a lot of the time its not really affecting/ harming any individuals - this was on the road where I worked, had a chat with a few of them and they convinced me
http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/standard/ ... -banksy.do
this case however is just a man and his family getting fucked over hard which I'm not as keen on...
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... ds-newsxml

The Daily Mail is poisonous. It's effects are much wider spread than it's readership.


Open Letter To Daily Mail
Written by Administrator
Wednesday, 16 March 2011
Alex Bannister
Managing Editor
Daily Mail
by emai: managingeditor@dailymail.co.uk


Dear Sir
We would like to respond to your article of March 5th, which contains a number of factual errors. We would be grateful if you could correct these errors, giving the corrections as much prominence as the original article, as per the PCC code of conduct.

Firstly, the headline – “Professional agencies marketing empty homes to potential SQUATTERS” - is misleading and inaccurate. Your article refers to only one organisation, the Advisory Service for Squatters. ASS is not professional, and nor is it an agency. Neither the organisation not any of the members make any money out of the work that is done. We are a collective of volunteers offering advice to the homeless and vulnerably housed, and have been in existence for 36 years. We are hardly news.

Second, ASS does not “market” property. A notice board with a variety of information placed by those who use our service – also including details of, for instance, missing people, does not amount to marketing. As your article states the Squatters Handbook stresses the need for research, rather than expecting to find an appropriate property from a notice board, list or forum.

For the heading to reflect the article it should say something like “voluntary organization offers advice to squatters and other homeless and insecurely housed people”. We’re proud to do so.

There are implications in the URL of the internet version of the article (which ends “Squatters-Inc-As-professional-agencies-MARKET-vacant-family-homes-break-beware-going-holiday”) and the strange question about whether someone would be happy for their front room to be squatted that perpetuate the false idea that squatters can occupy people’s homes.

If a property is in use as a home it can not legally be squatted – Section 7 of the 1977 Criminal Justice Act makes this very clear. If a squatter displaces a residential occupier, or prevents an intending occupier from moving in, they are committing a criminal offence and must leave or risk arrest and prosecution.

ASS is always clear in our advice on this matter – squatters can only house themselves in genuinely empty properties, and we encourage squatters to find properties that have been empty for some time. The “visitor” sent by the Daily Mail was specifically told to look for a property “in an advanced state of disrepair”. There are some 500,000 such abandoned houses across the UK, about 1.5% of the total housing stock – a scandal at a time of housing shortage. Your article is highly likely to create unnecessary alarm among homeowners for whom squatting is no threat. Worse, it could well mislead potential squatters, encouraging them to harm homeowners and also to criminalize themselves.

It is not possible to get legal aid to defend a claim of trespass, unless there is some other argument that could be won by the defendants. This is true for everyone, even those from Eastern Europe, who are in any case less likely to be entitled to legal aid. Either the case you refer to is more complicated than you have been told or you have misunderstood.

Much of the report on the visit to our office is twisted and taken out of context. The visitor was advised on legal and practical matters, having pretended to be impoverished and homeless. She lied about everything including her name, yet our volunteers are termed “coy” for only giving their first name. On this particular occasion the volunteer was not even asked for any other name. Your reporter was told that a court had recently found that changing a lock should not be considered criminal damage, and was shown how to do it, rather than pay someone else. The misrepresentation of our volunteer staffing the office on that day is particularly offensive.

We look forward to seeing these corrections published in your paper in due course. Should you fail to do so within a fortnight, we will take this matter up with the PCC. We at the ASS are always happy to provide commentary on housing issues, and would be happy to give your reporters a background briefing on the laws relating to squatting, so that they can report accurately in future.

Yours sincerely

Advisory Service for Squatters collective

yeah the mail is filth - ha like to point out I don't read the daily mail or it's website, i read the story/ saw it on tv a few weeks ago and that was first link to come up.. to be honest it was a pretty similar theme in all the media i saw it in

firky wrote:

clifford_- wrote: I think travelers (gypseys, pikeys, whatever people in your area call them) are persecuted so much becuase a large portion of them are thieves, and generally violent, horrible (and quite often VERY racist) people. (not all of em obviosuly, i do have traveller friends before anyone decides to jump on on their high horse)
It does tend to be the younger ones that are trouble, which you could say about all young people, however, i dont tend to cross the road if i see a group of chavs walking along the road, gypseys are a different story...

You know this post really urrks me, not because it's racist but because it's depressing. I honestly think our generation is the one to be proud of, most people hate any iscm of any form and seem to question the status quo when socially equality is anything but, slowly breaking that glass ceiling, no longer homophobic, racist, hateful and ignorant of other people and their cultures. But now and again you realise that this isn't the case, there's still people out there who are quite repulsive human beings.

Also pisses me off because I didn't expect something like this to be on DSF with out being a troll or an idiot, but you're alright, clifford. At least I used to think you were.

i know this is going back a bit but i'd challenge what you say about "our generation not being homophobic or racist etc etc", there are a few groups of people i know from various places that are most definitely racist or homophobic or small minded or whatever you want to call it. i'm not saying theyre my friends but they're people i have contact with on a semi-regular basis. i'm also not saying theyre scum or anything but they definitely have those things at their core. there's A LOT of young people around that aren't as free spirited and open minded as you might think. maybe not in big cosmopolitan cities, attending universities and going to club nights but they're there in rural areas up and down the country. they're gonna get older and think and act like their parents, vote like their parents and pass these beliefs on to their own children. i've seen it in lincolnshire and notts, a lot. its not great...

i think he got it twisted a bit. then again, the way i worded it wasnt flattering to say the least...

it wasnt directed at you at all, i was just saying....

laurent__duval wrote: i know this is going back a bit but i'd challenge what you say about "our generation not being homophobic or racist etc etc", there are a few groups of people i know from various places that are most definitely racist or homophobic or small minded or whatever you want to call it. i'm not saying theyre my friends but they're people i have contact with on a semi-regular basis. i'm also not saying theyre scum or anything but they definitely have those things at their core. there's A LOT of young people around that aren't as free spirited and open minded as you might think. maybe not in big cosmopolitan cities, attending universities and going to club nights but they're there in rural areas up and down the country. they're gonna get older and think and act like their parents, vote like their parents and pass these beliefs on to their own children. i've seen it in lincolnshire and notts, a lot. its not great...

Its called small town syndrome. I spent a fair few years with a load of those tossers. Its quite funny really, a bunch of sad racist twats.

laurent__duval wrote:it wasnt directed at you at all, i was just saying....

yea i know, and to a certain extent i do have a bit of cynicalism that has rubbed off on me from others.
just to clarify, i did say at the beggining it was what i think to be the reason for their persecution, i wasnt out to persecute anyone or convey stereotypes, and if thats the way it came across, it wasnt intended...

the wiggle baron wrote:

AntlionUK wrote:As squatting is illegal i think the mods should lock this thread to keep in accordance with their own rules.

Squatting is at least a grey area when it comes to the law. Pretty sure its not strictly illegal. Also, stop being a bitch. Have no idea how people still think they have ANY rights in this forum.

Woah guys, i support squaring. I was just pissed off about the growers thread and trying to draw a comparison.

laurent__duval wrote:

firky wrote:

clifford_- wrote: I think travelers (gypseys, pikeys, whatever people in your area call them) are persecuted so much becuase a large portion of them are thieves, and generally violent, horrible (and quite often VERY racist) people. (not all of em obviosuly, i do have traveller friends before anyone decides to jump on on their high horse)
It does tend to be the younger ones that are trouble, which you could say about all young people, however, i dont tend to cross the road if i see a group of chavs walking along the road, gypseys are a different story...

You know this post really urrks me, not because it's racist but because it's depressing. I honestly think our generation is the one to be proud of, most people hate any iscm of any form and seem to question the status quo when socially equality is anything but, slowly breaking that glass ceiling, no longer homophobic, racist, hateful and ignorant of other people and their cultures. But now and again you realise that this isn't the case, there's still people out there who are quite repulsive human beings.

Also pisses me off because I didn't expect something like this to be on DSF with out being a troll or an idiot, but you're alright, clifford. At least I used to think you were.

i know this is going back a bit but i'd challenge what you say about "our generation not being homophobic or racist etc etc", there are a few groups of people i know from various places that are most definitely racist or homophobic or small minded or whatever you want to call it. i'm not saying theyre my friends but they're people i have contact with on a semi-regular basis. i'm also not saying theyre scum or anything but they definitely have those things at their core. there's A LOT of young people around that aren't as free spirited and open minded as you might think. maybe not in big cosmopolitan cities, attending universities and going to club nights but they're there in rural areas up and down the country. they're gonna get older and think and act like their parents, vote like their parents and pass these beliefs on to their own children. i've seen it in lincolnshire and notts, a lot. its not great...

I am from the countryside, in fact you'll probably have seen it on the news last year. Rothbury, Northumberland where Moaty was shot? That's where I come from, fuck all but sheep - why do you think I moved?!

What you say is true, there is a very much insular view in this village and many like it but I've also found the same ignorance outside of the country. I lived on the South Coast of England for a lot of years and spent a great deal of my time around there and some of the attitudes in Portsmouth, Southampton, Ipswich, Southend and so on could easily revival the quaintest of country villages. There's fucking idiots everywhere basically, I just think they're more vocal in smaller communities because a great deal of people agree with them.

But overall I do think our generation is more spirited and open minded than the previous one. Shit it was within my generation you could still collect Golly Wogs and tell somewhat racist jokes on TV; usually directed at the Irish.

moral of the story...

squatting's alright and the countryside is full of racists...

AntlionUK wrote:

the wiggle baron wrote:

AntlionUK wrote:As squatting is illegal i think the mods should lock this thread to keep in accordance with their own rules.

Squatting is at least a grey area when it comes to the law. Pretty sure its not strictly illegal. Also, stop being a bitch. Have no idea how people still think they have ANY rights in this forum.

Woah guys, i support squaring. I was just pissed off about the growers thread and trying to draw a comparison.

I thought it might be that as I was posting No beef, just the admin get a fecking hard time when at the end of the day theyre just trying to make things tick along as best possible!

once did a squat party in the basement of the ASS office place to help them get a key cutter. sound people.

64hz wrote:still laughable.
its not stopping bullets is it? but at least they chose a good house to squat in, swimming pool, sauna, Jacuzzi and suede-lined cinema room.

tz... of course it's political - you ovbiously just haven't ever been living in a squat. it's a different life form in a squat, usually.
and that is very plitical. we used to decide on direct democratic principles and we had to have a political mentality to live in there because you spend more on your energy than just cleaning up and doing the dishes.
it's a constant debate with the city councelar/parties. it's about creating a different form of urban life - beyond the hyper-consuming being with authorities giving you rules about how to live.

if squatting is just about having fun - it would be horrible.

at the end of the day, there is more than enough room for everyone in this country, but through price barriers many are excluded. this is an example of the failure of the market. ive lived in a squat before, and people should not be quick to judge people who choose to live that way as lazy or junkies. the point was made earlier in this thread, that there are just as many living behind regular doors.


also, surely anyone would rather have homeless people squatting in an empty house than dying on the street.

HRKRT wrote: also, surely anyone would rather have homeless people squatting in an empty house than dying on the street.

i dont know if thats true. there are plenty of cunty people out there that i'm sure would be happy to see people 'less fortunate' then themselves take there chances on the street.

i totally agree with you. its criminal that houses lay empty and people have to sleep rough!

laurent__duval wrote:there are plenty of cunty people out there that i'm sure would be happy to see people 'less fortunate' then themselves take there chances on the street.

There's definitely plenty of that crowd in the U.S.