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Why when he says it in a video at the redbull music academy?


Your a fucking idiot and cleary know fuck all about the stuff youre preaching

DZA wrote:Why when he says it in a video at the redbull music academy?


Your a fucking idiot and cleary know fuck all about the stuff youre preaching

Once again, source? when was this taken? and how long AFTER the track released was this said?

Don't call me an idiot when you can't even cite your own sources.

furthermore, there's atleast 12 million people who buy music in the world. AT LEAST

30,000 isn't even 1% of that.

If they can't get more than 30k sales on a song, they've fucked up bad. not even grabbing (way less) thank 1% of the market. How can you stay in business like that?

If you want my source on that, go check the RIAA. They're full of statistics.

-T

Toric wrote:Once again, source? when was this taken? and how long AFTER the track released was this said?

Don't call me an idiot when you can't even cite your own sources.

furthermore, there's atleast 12 million people who buy music in the world. AT LEAST

30,000 isn't even 1% of that.

If they can't get more than 30k sales on a song, they've fucked up bad. not even grabbing (way less) thank 1% of the market. How can you stay in business like that?

If you want my source on that, go check the RIAA. They're full of statistics.

-T

youre answers are just laughable

DZA wrote:Why when he says it in a video at the redbull music academy?


Your a fucking idiot and cleary know fuck all about the stuff youre preaching

DZA wrote:

Toric wrote:Once again, source? when was this taken? and how long AFTER the track released was this said?

Don't call me an idiot when you can't even cite your own sources.

furthermore, there's atleast 12 million people who buy music in the world. AT LEAST

30,000 isn't even 1% of that.

If they can't get more than 30k sales on a song, they've fucked up bad. not even grabbing (way less) thank 1% of the market. How can you stay in business like that?

If you want my source on that, go check the RIAA. They're full of statistics.

-T

youre answers are just laughable

DZA wrote:Why when he says it in a video at the redbull music academy?


Your a fucking idiot and cleary know fuck all about the stuff youre preaching

you want me to go searching trough 45 minutes of video to possibly not even be looking at the right video just to prove you wrong? Not happening buddy.

70k combined amount you say? Cause you acted like you got all the facts from him on the phone. Like how many units sold on release, how it was promoted, how many units it's sold now, when the release date of the album is.

Sorry kid, I can't be bothered to do your homework for you. If you want to prove me wrong, you're going to have to work for it.

-T

Youve been called out so many times on the shit youve posted and yet you still think youre right

Toric wrote:you want me to go searching trough 45 minutes of video to possibly not even be looking at the right video just to prove you wrong? Not happening buddy.

Toric wrote:If you want to prove me wrong, you're going to have to work for it.

Wait a minute, so if DZA wants to prove you wrong, he's going to have to work for it.

But you're not willing to do anything toward proving him wrong.

So, this is a case of fuck you I'm right and I can't prove it b2b fuck you you're wrong and I can't be bothered to prove it.

wub wrote:

Toric wrote:you want me to go searching trough 45 minutes of video to possibly not even be looking at the right video just to prove you wrong? Not happening buddy.

Toric wrote:If you want to prove me wrong, you're going to have to work for it.

Wait a minute, so if DZA wants to prove you wrong, he's going to have to work for it.

But you're not willing to do anything toward proving him wrong.

So, this is a case of fuck you I'm right and I can't prove it b2b fuck you you're wrong and I can't be bothered to prove it.

^^^^^
Locks my thread and shows me love in the same day

Such a naughty boy

DZA wrote:Youve been called out so many times on the shit youve posted and yet you still think youre right

I am right. Deal with it. You haven't given me any facts. You haven't proven that 30k cd sales is an achievement. you're looking at an album that was release 4-5 years ago. Different market. Look up some facts why don't you?

I bet you anything those albums have sold more than 70k copies by now.

I've done plenty to prove him wrong, are you shitting me? I've listed evidence and facts, all he's done is say "kode9 said in x year that x album sold x amount" without giving any details.

Fuck off Wub, you biased prick.

Toric wrote:you want me to [do something] just to prove you wrong? Not happening buddy.

Toric wrote:I've done plenty to prove him wrong, are you shitting me?

You've just said here that you won't do anything to prove him wrong though?

Toric wrote:Fuck off Wub, you biased prick.

Foul language is the last bastion of those who have run out of intelligent thought.

Toric wrote:

Sparxy wrote:Ok Toric, i'm not saying that its impossible to make a name for yourself by releasing your own music, i'm saying its pointless for the majority of people. There are so many amateurs with music on places like iTunes that its impossible to find the diamonds in the rough sometimes. Besides the point, very few people on the lookout for the newest dubstep sensation will be buying music on iTunes. I don't know about you but I go to Juno Download and Beatport to buy my music. DJs don't really go on iTunes do they? You could be releasing your tunes way before its release worthy. Did you get your own tune mastered? Is that the best tune you can make? Or maybe you'd be better of waiting a year before you've honed your techniques when a label will want to back you.

On the plus side, if you really are fucking awesome and loads of people start buying your stuff on iTunes you could be landed with a fat deal from a big label very quick. But I think this is incredibly unlikely and generally your time is better spent doing other things. I just think it's a huge waste of time and effort for the majority of people. If you were good enough you would get a release on a small label who would distribute your music properly.

Of course this is subjective and other people may believe they are making waves releasing their tunes through the likes of CD Baby, but each to their own, it's not how i'd want to do it.

I could tell you how to get your music onto beatport or junodownload. It's really not that hard.

step 1: http://www.google.com
step 2: spend time researching

Not trying to be an ass, but it seems like you don't really care to know, so I'm not going to waste my time going into specifics on how to do soemthing you're not going to take the time to do it. Also, what works for me isn't going to necessarily work for you.

It's awesome that you'd rather spend your time as a producer and hone your skills, but I would consider spending some of your free time reading books on self promoting your music. Of course there's a right and wrong time to release things, and of course your music may not be ready to be released. That's why you work towards that goal of getting release worth music, while studying on how to release it once you've gotten to that point. If your music isn't release worthy yet, then why are you submitting it to labels?

If you read my earlier post, you would see that I said master your tracks and sell them yourself if you want to get attention from major labels (deep medi probably will look for this as well) because no label wants to pull an artists fat ass around the globe without the artists picking himself up and walking every once in a while. It's just not going to happen. Labels don't spend as much money on artists because it's become a career. You actually have to do things for yourself. A label won't just do everything for you.

CD baby worked for metal, maybe not for electronic music/dance music, but I'm sure there are plenty of other aggregators out there like CD baby who can do what you want (beatport, junodownload, probably even release it through the iToilet when it's available, who knows.).

The point is to know when your music is worth listening to, and releasing it yourself if you can't find a label who wants to help you out. Some of them might want to but might not have the funds or vacancy on their release schedule to actually do anything for you.

If you want to know how to start releasing your tunes yourself, message me and I'll give you a small lecture and a book or two to read. (cept huty, I don't wanna do shit for you. )

-T

You're an idiot.Why do you think I don't want to know how you plan on getting your tunes onto all the retailers? Because I already fucking know. I have a better way than you, and its through my label and a distro partner. There are numerous reasons why this is better than whatever youre planning on doing, but i'm fed up of wasting my energy typing in response to you, because you're a fool.

Why do you think I am here preaching small labels? Because I am one! I know about the scene, and you clearly don't. Furthermore, if it wasn't for the bread and butter stuff the small labels do for music then there wouldn't be any music. Why do you think Wub mentioned that Deadmau5's first release was on a small, independent label? because its where everything starts. If you're big, then you've had releases on small labels. End of story.

I'm done in this thread! And you should stop talking

Sparxy wrote:Why do you think Wub mentioned that Deadmau5's first release was on a small, independent label? because its where everything starts. If you're big, then you've had releases on small labels.

Glad somebody got that reference, was worried I was wasting my time here for a moment.

wub wrote:

Toric wrote:you want me to [do something] just to prove you wrong? Not happening buddy.

Toric wrote:I've done plenty to prove him wrong, are you shitting me?

You've just said here that you won't do anything to prove him wrong though?

Toric wrote:Fuck off Wub, you biased prick.

Foul language is the last bastion of those who have run out of intelligent thought.

Wow, nice way to take a joke.

I'm not going to, because I've already given him ALL of the evidence in this thread. All he needs to do is read and research. I'm not his mother.

Toric wrote: Why don't YOU tell me how a label calculates their income from song sales? Explain it to me smart guy.
-T

Sure, bro. Here let me break it down for you so the next time you are in a situation such as this, you'll have a modicum of understanding regarding the business aspect of a release.

Let's look at the original "equation" you posted:

Toric wrote:Here's a math equation for you.

1,000 x .99 = answer a

30,000 x .99 = answer b

answer b - answer a = answer c

answer c /2 = net profit for label (minimum)

Post answer here plz.

I'll go ahead and use a hypothetical situation modeled after the original "equation". Here's scenario 1: Toric self-releases a track.

Answer A:
Toric self-releases a track for .99 cents. Through some miracle, he sells a 1,000 copies. Sales revenue from the release is $990. Unfortunately, Toric also has associated marketing costs of 10% (for sake of simplicity lets say your artist website), as well as distribution costs of 25% (since Toric has no previous dealings with the digital distributor and does not deal in sufficient volume for discounts which more established labels enjoy). Additionally, Toric has associated legal fees of another 10% in order to properly license his creative material. Moreover, he also has production costs of 10% (for your synthesis engineer, mixing engineer and mastering engineer assuming you want your track to sound comparable to other commercial releases). Also, tax season is finally here! Toric employs an accountant at 5 percent of his total revenues to do his taxes, since he isn't an accountant. Also, Uncle Sam is here to collect 35 percent of your total net income, since Toric has self-released on his own label which is incorporated (we'll refer to that as tax costs).

Now pay attention here: Revenue minus cost is equal to net income
Toric's self released sales revenue: $990
minus marketing costs $99 (.10*990)
minus distro costs $247.50 (.25*990)
minus legal costs $99 (.10*990)
minus production costs $99 (.10*990)
minus accounting costs $49.50 (.05*990)
NIBT (net income before taxes) = $396
minus tax expense $138.60 (.35*990)
BOTTOM LINE (realized net income) = $257.40
(Mind you this doesn't even account for manufacturing overhead such as utilities, studio rent, which both by GAAP and IASB standards are to be included in the costs of manufacturing goods etc.)

Conclusion: After self-releasing, Toric has enough money to pay a fraction of his studio apartment's rent.

Answer B
Since Toric has already self released his track, a notable label turns down his submission for a release. The track is already creatively licensed (label does not want to deal with associated legal fees of transferring rights and accounting for amortization expense), had sub-par production quality (due to the engineers he could afford), was already marketed to the general populace (and had mainly negative exposure due to the factors above), and has already been on the internet freely available for download over p2p due to his previous self-release.


Scenario 2: Toric decides against self-releasing and waits until he is good enough to get a release.

Answer A: Not applicable. Toric in this alternate dimension actually has foresight.

Answer B: Notable label has taken an interest in one of his submissions for release. In order to prevent any previous negative branding from impacting sales, the notable label asks Toric to change his moniker. Since there was no previous licensing costs associated with this, notable label can use the attorneys they have on retainer (flat free for all artists) to do this (5% of revenue). Additionally, notable label has distribution channels set up with various digital distributors and cumulatively pays them 10% of revenue (due to the sheer volume of notable label's sales they are offered commercial discounts). Moreover, notable artist, one of the most distinguished artists on notable label's roster, has a market of 50,000 people, and in order to help promote and market Toric's music, notable artist adds Toric's track to his DJ playlist (thus, notable label realizes a marketing cost of virtually nothing while exposing Toric to nearly 50 times more potential customers than he could through self-release). Since notable label also has professional synthesis, mixing, and mastering engineers they always use for all their artists (either in house or third-party), production costs are marginal and can be included in manufacturing overhead (10% of revenue although probably significantly less). Finally, notable label is incorporated, thus, they have accountants both internal and external which they constantly deal with (once again a marginal cost which could be included in overhead but for shits and giggles 5% of revenue). Uncle Sam is back again; however, notable label's accountants' actually have undergraduate degrees and are specialized tax accountants (unlike the accounting clerks from HR Block that Toric utilized). After clever accounting, notable label only has to pay 20% of net income as tax.

Due to notable label's market, Toric sells 30,000 on his release at .99 a pop.

Sales Revenue for notable label on Toric's release: $29,700
minus legal costs $1,485 (.05*29700)
minus distro costs $2,970 (.10*29700)
minus production costs $2,970 (.10*29700)
minus accounting costs $1,485 (.05*29700)
NIBT = $20,790 This is where the label keeps 50% and hands Toric 50%. After costs are realized on the balance sheet and before income is taxed, because Toric is accountable for his own taxes.

Therefore, net income before taxes for Toric is $10,395. ($20,790/2)
minus Toric's tax expense $3638.25 (.35*10395)
TORIC'S BOTTOM LINE (realized net income) $6756.75

Net income before taxes for notable label: $10,395
minus notable label's tax expense $2,079 (.20*10395)
NOTABLE LABEL'S BOTTOM LINE (realized net income) $8,316

Conclusion: Toric can pay his rent and then some.

So what would you prefer as compensation for a track release? $257 or $6756?

Toric wrote:I'm not going to, because I've already given him ALL of the evidence in this thread. All he needs to do is read and research. I'm not his mother.

Again, someone else has to do the legwork to prove you wrong, yet you're not willing to do anything to prove them wrong. Double standards, honestly...

Toric wrote:Wow, nice way to take a joke.

Jokes are funny. That was just offensive.

wub wrote:

Toric wrote:I'm not going to, because I've already given him ALL of the evidence in this thread. All he needs to do is read and research. I'm not his mother.

Again, someone else has to do the legwork to prove you wrong, yet you're not willing to do anything to prove them wrong. Double standards, honestly...

Toric wrote:Wow, nice way to take a joke.

Jokes are funny. That was just offensive.

I have done the legwork, and now you're just contradicting me. Good job Wub.

If you didn't read my earlier posts, you would know that I did the leg work, and I'm not going to DO IT AGAIN because some poster doesn't understand how marketing and business works.

Toric wrote:

wub wrote:

Toric wrote:I'm not going to, because I've already given him ALL of the evidence in this thread. All he needs to do is read and research. I'm not his mother.

Again, someone else has to do the legwork to prove you wrong, yet you're not willing to do anything to prove them wrong. Double standards, honestly...

Toric wrote:Wow, nice way to take a joke.

Jokes are funny. That was just offensive.

I have done the legwork, and now you're just contradicting me. Good job Wub.

If you didn't read my earlier posts, you would know that I did the leg work, and I'm not going to DO IT AGAIN because some poster doesn't understand how marketing and business works.

Disagreement is not the same as contradiction, FYI. My apologies for not agreeing with the viewpoint you have over this subject.

atticuh wrote:

Toric wrote: Why don't YOU tell me how a label calculates their income from song sales? Explain it to me smart guy.
-T

Sure, bro. Here let me break it down for you so the next time you are in a situation such as this, you'll have a modicum of understanding regarding the business aspect of a release.

Let's look at the original "equation" you posted:

Toric wrote:Here's a math equation for you.

1,000 x .99 = answer a

30,000 x .99 = answer b

answer b - answer a = answer c

answer c /2 = net profit for label (minimum)

Post answer here plz.

I'll go ahead and use a hypothetical situation modeled after the original "equation". Here's scenario 1: Toric self-releases a track.

Answer A:
Toric self-releases a track for .99 cents. Through some miracle, he sells a 1,000 copies. Sales revenue from the release is $990. Unfortunately, Toric also has associated marketing costs of 10% (for sake of simplicity lets say your artist website), as well as distribution costs of 25% (since Toric has no previous dealings with the digital distributor and does not deal in sufficient volume for discounts which more established labels enjoy). Additionally, Toric has associated legal fees of another 10% in order to properly license his creative material. Moreover, he also has production costs of 10% (for your synthesis engineer, mixing engineer and mastering engineer assuming you want your track to sound comparable to other commercial releases). Also, tax season is finally here! Toric employs an accountant at 5 percent of his total revenues to do his taxes, since he isn't an accountant. Also, Uncle Sam is here to collect 35 percent of your total net income, since Toric has self-released on his own label which is incorporated (we'll refer to that as tax costs).

Now pay attention here: Revenue minus cost is equal to net income
Toric's self released sales revenue: $990
minus marketing costs $99 (.10*990)
minus distro costs $247.50 (.25*990)
minus legal costs $99 (.10*990)
minus production costs $99 (.10*990)
minus accounting costs $49.50 (.05*990)
NIBT (net income before taxes) = $396
minus tax expense $138.60 (.35*990)
BOTTOM LINE (realized net income) = $257.40
(Mind you this doesn't even account for manufacturing overhead such as utilities, studio rent, which both by GAAP and IASB standards are to be included in the costs of manufacturing goods etc.)

Conclusion: After self-releasing, Toric has enough money to pay a fraction of his studio apartment's rent.

Answer B
Since Toric has already self released his track, a notable label turns down his submission for a release. The track is already creatively licensed (label does not want to deal with associated legal fees of transferring rights and accounting for amortization expense), had sub-par production quality (due to the engineers he could afford), was already marketed to the general populace (and had mainly negative exposure due to the factors above), and has already been on the internet freely available for download over p2p due to his previous self-release.


Scenario 2: Toric decides against self-releasing and waits until he is good enough to get a release.

Answer A: Not applicable. Toric in this alternate dimension actually has foresight.

Answer B: Notable label has taken an interest in one of his submissions for release. In order to prevent any previous negative branding from impacting sales, the notable label asks Toric to change his moniker. Since there was no previous licensing costs associated with this, notable label can use the attorneys they have on retainer (flat free for all artists) to do this (5% of revenue). Additionally, notable label has distribution channels set up with various digital distributors and cumulatively pays them 10% of revenue (due to the sheer volume of notable label's sales they are offered commercial discounts). Moreover, notable artist, one of the most distinguished artists on notable label's roster, has a market of 50,000 people, and in order to help promote and market Toric's music, notable artist adds Toric's track to his DJ playlist (thus, notable label realizes a marketing cost of virtually nothing while exposing Toric to nearly 50 times more potential customers than he could through self-release). Since notable label also has professional synthesis, mixing, and mastering engineers they always use for all their artists (either in house or third-party), production costs are marginal and can be included in manufacturing overhead (10% of revenue although probably significantly less). Finally, notable label is incorporated, thus, they have accountants both internal and external which they constantly deal with (once again a marginal cost which could be included in overhead but for shits and giggles 5% of revenue). Uncle Sam is back again; however, notable label's accountants' actually have undergraduate degrees and are specialized tax accountants (unlike the accounting clerks from HR Block that Toric utilized). After clever accounting, notable label only has to pay 20% of net income as tax.

Due to notable label's market, Toric sells 30,000 on his release at .99 a pop.

Sales Revenue for notable label on Toric's release: $29,700
minus legal costs $1,485 (.05*29700)
minus distro costs $2,970 (.10*29700)
minus production costs $2,970 (.10*29700)
minus accounting costs $1,485 (.05*29700)
NIBT = $20,790 This is where the label keeps 50% and hands Toric 50%. After costs are realized on the balance sheet and before income is taxed, because Toric is accountable for his own taxes.

Therefore, net income before taxes for Toric is $10,395. ($20,790/2)
minus Toric's tax expense $3638.25 (.35*10395)
TORIC'S BOTTOM LINE (realized net income) $6756.75

Net income before taxes for notable label: $10,395
minus notable label's tax expense $2,079 (.20*10395)
NOTABLE LABEL'S BOTTOM LINE (realized net income) $8,316

Conclusion: Toric can pay his rent and then some.

So what would you prefer as compensation for a track release? $257 or $6756?

So I used profit instead of income. sure me dude. You proved my point just there. I would also like to add, when is there a huge ass legal fee that costs the record company so much money and time that they can't sign a contract for the rights to distribute a song, or even better, when does a record company not look and go through the loopholes by taking your song, changing a few things and then re-releasing it under new right?

You've gotta be shitting me. You think record labels are fucking stupid? If they want to release a track that's been released already, they will get it done if it's worth the money to them. 90% of the time, its is. the other 10% of the time it's a mistake, which happens.

If you're releasing your own tunes, and not getting many sales and no label wants to pick the song up, then you probably suck as an artist.

But you continue with your facts there, because nobody out there has ever self released and made a profit. Nobody, ever. Nobody does that, and that's why aggregators don't exist.

A record label spends than money on you gladly because you are their EMPLOYEE and they TREAT YOU AS SUCH. You make money for them to promote and distribute your music. You're gonna rely on luck and fortune to get some record label to sign ONE track for you and HOPE that it sells well, when they might not even push it very hard. Good luck with your career dude.

-T

Changing the context to support your argument. Very post modern.

wub wrote:Changing the context to support your argument. Very post modern.

The industry changes constantly, what worked 5 years ago in an economic recession for multiple powerhouse countries won't work today.

There's a science to this entire thing.

-T

Toric wrote:

wub wrote:Changing the context to support your argument. Very post modern.

The industry changes constantly, what worked 5 years ago in an economic recession for multiple powerhouse countries won't work today.

Good lord, something we agree on. Yes, the industry has changed - which is why in today's climate, an underground label (even one as high profile as Deep Medi) is not selling 30k+ per release.