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both sides rape and use children in war. how can we pick one of these sides just because they made a great video?

sorry, let me clarify:

as far as I'm concerned, this issue needs to be about Kony and stopping atrocities worldwide, not KONY 2012 and IC.

i was born and raised in Africa, i've seen these problems with my own eyes. these problems are multi-dimensional, and i don't think this will "get the job done"

knell wrote:sorry, let me clarify:

as far as I'm concerned, this issue needs to be about Kony and stopping atrocities worldwide, not KONY 2012 and IC.

i was born and raised in Africa, i've seen these problems with my own eyes. these problems are multi-dimensional, and i don't think this will "get the job done"

Oh yeah fair enough, I don't think so either. As I said... to me it's kinda like breaking a dam because you're worried about it overflowing.

fractal wrote:both sides rape and use children in war. how can we pick one of these sides just because they made a great video?

This ^^


The main point of that video is to drum up enough interest so the west have to take notice and use the military, so many people jumping on it for that sole reason is fucked up. I think the fact of oil being found there last year seals the deal, America will go in

this whole thing is just trying to show that the public can have the ability to use the military at their own will, which is beyond wrong.

Most outwardly altruistic acts have some sort of self interest at their heart... from charity muggers on the street getting 10/hr to people paid fulltime by Greenpeace to those doing it for the inner glow... someone's always getting something. It's not necessarily important what the motives were if the action is good... when you require vast opinion of the public to make a difference, your actions need to be good in order for them to get any kind of traction. Nobody's about to release a viral BNP Youth video and get 8 million views overnight...

All we're seeing is the (perfectly natural) democratisation of propaganda. It used to be that pretty much all our knowledge of war, famine and atrocity had to come from the News - i.e. the BBC and the Associated Press... not a very big sample, but they highlighted plenty of issues through things like Children In Need and nightly News broadcasts to keep us up to speed on some things... the difference now is that anyone with a mobile phone, an iBook and a Twitter account can make and spread top quality propaganda for their chosen causes... I really don't see how that's a bad thing. People spend the rest of the time complaining that we don't have enough sources... that "the man" controls our information stream... yet when a different group publicises their cause and strikes an International chord it's immediately seen as a threat?

Also, to think that weight of public opinion alone is enough to start military action is a little bit ridiculous... a government is usually quite willing to go to war against its population's wishes if it genuinely thinks it's in the national interest - it'd take an absolutely overwhelming storm of public hysteria to force any country's government to go to war if the government didn't think it was a good idea. All this is is a PR stunt. It's just an attempt to get people, and hopefully a few governments, talking about an issue... it's worked... well done!

Edit: Admittedly, the quest for donations and sale of merch is a bit much... but I also assume these people need to feed themselves, unfortunately even the altruistic need cash to sustain their existences!

KONY 2012 is a film and campaign by Invisible Children that aims to make Joseph Kony famous, not to celebrate him, but to raise support for his arrest and set a precedent for international justice.

HOW TO HELP:
Donate to Invisible Children: https://www.stayclassy.org/checkout/donation?eid=14711
Purchase KONY 2012 products: http://invisiblechildrenstore.myshopify.com/
Sign the Pledge: http://www.causes.com/causes/227-invisible-children

magma wrote:Most outwardly altruistic acts have some sort of self interest at their heart... from charity muggers on the street getting 10/hr to people paid fulltime by Greenpeace to those doing it for the inner glow... someone's always getting something. It's not necessarily important what the motives were if the action is good... when you require vast opinion of the public to make a difference, your actions need to be good in order for them to get any kind of traction. Nobody's about to release a viral BNP Youth video and get 8 million views overnight...

All we're seeing is the (perfectly natural) democratisation of propaganda. It used to be that pretty much all our knowledge of war, famine and atrocity had to come from the News - i.e. the BBC and the Associated Press... not a very big sample, but they highlighted plenty of issues through things like Children In Need and nightly News broadcasts to keep us up to speed on some things... the difference now is that anyone with a mobile phone, an iBook and a Twitter account can make and spread top quality propaganda for their chosen causes... I really don't see how that's a bad thing. People spend the rest of the time complaining that we don't have enough sources... that "the man" controls our information stream... yet when a different group publicises their cause and strikes an International chord it's immediately seen as a threat?

Also, to think that weight of public opinion alone is enough to start military action is a little bit ridiculous... a government is usually quite willing to go to war against its population's wishes if it genuinely thinks it's in the national interest - it'd take an absolutely overwhelming storm of public hysteria to force any country's government to go to war if the government didn't think it was a good idea. All this is is a PR stunt. It's just an attempt to get people, and hopefully a few governments, talking about an issue... it's worked... well done!

Edit: Admittedly, the quest for donations and sale of merch is a bit much... but I also assume these people need to feed themselves, unfortunately even the altruistic need cash to sustain their existences!

I agree 10,000%

But, since there is a very real possibility of this doing more harm than benefit, is it really a wise idea to throw money at good intentions and emotional videos?

knell wrote: I agree 10,000%

But, since there is a very real possibility of this doing more harm than benefit, is it really a wise idea to throw money at good intentions and emotional videos?

Not cash, no... signatures and pointing out and explaining posters/etc to people... yeah...

You don't have to be all or nothing... it's possible to watch a video and not do everything it says.

cheeky

I was buying it until they used Flux Pavilion

fractal wrote:both sides rape and use children in war. how can we pick one of these sides just because they made a great video?

because the side with the video played real dubs!

knell wrote:sorry, let me clarify:

as far as I'm concerned, this issue needs to be about Kony and stopping atrocities worldwide, not KONY 2012 and IC.

i was born and raised in Africa, i've seen these problems with my own eyes. these problems are multi-dimensional, and i don't think this will "get the job done"

this is how i feel about it as well. i also feel that people need to realize that this is literally the hunt for osama again, only in africa. while raising awareness is one thing...its not like hes just going to magically come out of the jungle and turn himself in

cut off the head and another will grow in its place sure enough. facebook is cancer today.

hutyluty wrote:cut off the head and another will grow in its place sure enough. facebook is cancer today.

So what do we do? Nothing?

kidshuffle wrote:

knell wrote:sorry, let me clarify:

as far as I'm concerned, this issue needs to be about Kony and stopping atrocities worldwide, not KONY 2012 and IC.

i was born and raised in Africa, i've seen these problems with my own eyes. these problems are multi-dimensional, and i don't think this will "get the job done"

this is how i feel about it as well. i also feel that people need to realize that this is literally the hunt for osama again, only in africa. while raising awareness is one thing...its not like hes just going to magically come out of the jungle and turn himself in

And I imagine that's how most governments will feel too... nobody's going on an Osama-hunt without a 9/11 to back it, but you don't make propaganda with a fair and balanced point of view... you make propaganda a little bit hysterical so that people get excited enough to take it on board. But still, just because you take something from watching a video doesn't mean you have to take everything... give the people and their governments a little credit, most of them are quite like you and I. We can enjoy capitalist marketing without even buying the products, why would charity/cause advertising need to be treated differently?

The upshot of people watching it and then reacting to it, is that everyone's also now talking about other atrocities and about the workings of charities... unintended positives.

The spread of information is rarely a bad thing...

magma wrote:
The spread of information is rarely a bad thing...

a lot of truth to that

dj snaps wrote:

magma wrote:

dj snaps wrote:My point is that why should it take a viral video on Youtube for us to take notice of something that's been happening for over 20 years? Shows you how fucked western society is.

If a positive action is the result, surely it really doesn't matter what the catalyst was?

Most people can't spend their lives researching atrocities in foreign lands... it is certainly disappointing that it takes a viral YouTube to alert the masses about something like this, but it's not really surprising given that most of the masses have to spend their time thinking about personal issues like putting food on the table and raising their families. The idea that nobody should spend their hard-earnt evenings and weekends relaxing because there is evil in the world really is a bit silly.

A less pessemistic mind might equally conclude that we've finally reached a stage where we can share information this easily... 20 (even 3, actually) years ago it would've been utterly impossible to inform the entire developed world about something like this overnight - now it is possible, people are taking advantage of it to fight for justice with the Arab Spring and this KONY video being pretty effective examples. Rejoice in the progress your species is demonstrating!

Equally, the effect of hitting everyone in such a short period of time can't be ignored... if the People learn about something in ones and twos over the course of a decade, they rarely get anything done about it - there aren't enough passionate about it at any one time to influence a government into action. If tens of millions are alerted overnight to something, they tend to have a loud enough voice to get something done.

Yeh i completely agree, although i don't spend my life researching about what's happening. As you pointed out, it takes literally a few minutes, seconds even to find out about these things via the internet. And somehow i still manage to put food on the table and raise my son..

People just make me laugh on mediums like facebook and forums, yesterday they couldn't give a shit about what was going on, now everyones posting a video about it and they think theyre a modern day mother teresa. Plus, 3/4 of them give it the talk and won't even do anything about beyond their computer screen.

There's always hidden agendas behind these things. Beside the fact that a pittance of the money donated actually goes to the cause they think theyre donating to, IC are openly advocating military force, from a regime that oppresses their own people. The whole hype around it is retarded

When I hear of 10 000 women raped as a weapon of war, many abandoned by their husbands for fear of them having contracted AIDS & left without financial support, I feel outraged & sympathetic. When I think about the spiraling population around The Rift competing for dwindling resources I feel powerless to do anything, just as I do about Tibet, Burma, Kyrgyrstan, Guatemala, Venezuela, Pakistan, Afghanistan etc. Giving some money to agencies that I've checked out helps salve my conscience but it doesn't take away the ****** thought: what if this was happening to me?
I'd want protection from the militias, I'd want medicine for AIDS, I'd want secure title over fertile land, I'd want my children educated so they'd be employable (& maybe go on to question tribalism & racism).
And, that's what most Rwandans, Congolese & Ugandans probably want.
How do we help them achieve it?
Do we finance a group of Australian women who are assisting a village's women who were all raped?
Do we make docos & create political pressure?
Do we sit on computers & bemoan the fact that nobody knows about it?
Do we send 100 solidiers to track down one of the worst psychopaths?
Do we collect money for a good cause & purloin some of it to escape the poverty?
Do I, say, having been a teacher, donate my time & experience to helping educate a bunch of kids?
Not yet I haven't.
Probably never will because I'll choose to do other things, including enjoying the place & time I'm in.
Which makes me wonder about karma/ luck/ fate but that doesn't help the world's oppressed.
In the end, it's easy to get ideas, to espouse good causes but, like most things vying for our attention,
it's commitment to things that hold out the most meaning for us that make us agents of change.
tbh this issue isn't it for me but, for those for whom it is, I hope they find a way to be effective.

btw: ***** up there is the word noggling with an i instead of the o

I like seeing the same people who think we should get our soldiers out of Iraq and Afgan saying we should do something about this Kony fella. Al-Qaeda probably didn't have a very ethical way of recruiting people either....

drew from TFD is as acerbic as ever:

https://twitter.com/#!/drewtoothpaste/s ... 5065186304

Did you see the documentary about that country that takes young men from poor families and forces them to go to war? Some place called "USA"

Fitzaaaaaay wrote:I was buying it until they used Flux Pavilion

Haha did they? I Obviously haven't seen the video.