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fragments wrote:I start with my kick at -12dB these days and usually my sub about -15dB...but it's all relative...these numbers are merely rough guidelines. What ever the "main" percussion instrument is...clap/snare etc...that's usually at like -14 to -16...again just a rough place to start. Stuff like hi hats can be really low -20dB or more (again, all depends) because we perceive high frequency sounds as being louder (subjectively).

With those values for that sub and kick, there can't be much headroom left.

Like he said, I also usually put my kick between -12 and -10, I also usually do what he does and place my sub about 2db lower than the kick. We differ slightly on the clap/snare though... Usually I have the clap/snare hit 1-2 db just ABOVE the kick instead of just below. I would definitely push those hats way down near -18 to -20, but instead of simply lowering their level I would first take an EQ and sweep a highpass up the frequency spectrum till they both thin out a bit (they sound a little clunky, but that might be my taste) and simultaneously lower the output THEN i would adjust the level.

For anything that isn't kick sub or snare I imagine the fletcher munson curve http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fletcher%E ... son_curves. And I say IMAGINE because I don't pull it up and dissect my sound with the chart and analyzer side by side... I just keep it in mind. Sometimes I will take an element and see how quiet I can make it before I can no longer detect it, then I push it back up and how much I push it up depends on how important the element is to the song (leads vs. pads)

Like others have said, the clarity comes with good gain staging and EQing during mixdown, not mastering.

BYTEME wrote:Usually kicks hit around the 56-58hz. Which sometimes bothers me a little. Or am I looking at the wrong part of where the kick is hitting... Hmm.... I'm really not sure.

In my experience kicks "hit" (attack) between 80-110hz and decay down into the 50s.

Alright here's the edited version according to your volumes you suggested.
The only thing I could have possibly done wrong was lowpassing the triangle-sub bass. Maybe I lowpassed too much or I muddied it up a LOT. Something sounds off.

I also snuck in a sine-sub bass below -20db. It's pretty seamless to hear, I lowpassed it below 40hz.

Soundcloud

Somehow I think it sounds worse than it did before, did I do something very wrong?
I mentioned above I did not add a single limiter or compressor on the master channel or any other channels. JUST EQ's on every channel keeping the lows away from the high's.

making music isnt science with a fucking formula lol, levels do no matter except for in relation to themselves. Yes I keep mine low and dont clip, but manz like rockwell boosts everything bare high and has fucked up levels but his tunes sound good. You asked how to make that tune you did sound good, well you can do that by making it more musical and adding in more shit, compressing it isnt going to make it into a better tune lol. To be honest using less things should make it easier to mix it. I heard that Richie Hawtin said that his track Spastikk and Plastikman is the most well balanced track he has ever made due to it just being made out of an 808 drum machine, but with that theres not major clashing or anything for you to have to EQ so the track is naturally balanced well.

What you are talking about is MIXING. Getting all the levels right, EQing, Compressing is all part of the MIXING stage. Although EQing and Compressing can be involved in the mastering stage on the track as a whole.

You're way too worried about numbers and formulas man, I have to check the dates on these posts because I swear you make this thread bi-weekly. As cliche as it sounds, I feel like mixing is one of the simplest things once you get out of the numbers game and just start doing what sounds good, and using reference tracks. If you don't know how to compress or limit, don't do it. Listen to a track with a similar vibe that you're going for and compare their levels to yours (using your ears no spectrum analyzers and whatever else). Also realize that what you upload to SC isn't going to give us a perfect representation of what comes out of your DAW.

Huts wrote:You're way too worried about numbers and formulas man I feel like mixing is one of the simplest things once you get out of the numbers game and just start doing what sounds good, and using reference tracks. If you don't know how to compress or limit, don't do it. Listen to a track with a similar vibe that you're going for and compare their levels to yours (using your ears no spectrum analyzers and whatever else)

This was worth repeating.

Merging this with your 'retarded' thread as they're by and large the same topic.


Though reading back over the last 4 pages or so, it seems your main issue is that you want to be told exactly how to do something instead of just being shown the basic concepts (which you have been over and over...) and then learning it yourself.

Thread title is pretty apt.

Seriously man, disable the dB meters on your mixer so you just have the bar and your ears. If I boost my kick by 2 dB's it isn't going to fuck my mix over completely. Sure, it'll get a little off but if you have a good mix you're not going to need to write your volumes with decimals after, you should have some margins. It's not all about db levels.

A good thing to do is try not to use so many plugins and just EQ stuff till it sounds nice, maybe whack a limiter on for good measure.

Personally, i don't use a whole lot of stuff and i use FL 10.. i find people try to get loads of plugins and stuff and try and do all these techniques to just get mad because it doesn't sound amazing, rather than training their ears to detect problems.

I barely use compressors either, i just don't like them. But that's me.

Widowmaker wrote:A good thing to do is try not to use so many plugins and just EQ stuff till it sounds nice, maybe whack a limiter on for good measure.

Personally, i don't use a whole lot of stuff and i use FL 10.. i find people try to get loads of plugins and stuff and try and do all these techniques to just get mad because it doesn't sound amazing, rather than training their ears to detect problems.

I barely use compressors either, i just don't like them. But that's me.

TBH mate, in as non a creepy way as possible would love to have a studio session with you one time I'm back in the UK to check your workflow etc

wub wrote:

Widowmaker wrote:A good thing to do is try not to use so many plugins and just EQ stuff till it sounds nice, maybe whack a limiter on for good measure.

Personally, i don't use a whole lot of stuff and i use FL 10.. i find people try to get loads of plugins and stuff and try and do all these techniques to just get mad because it doesn't sound amazing, rather than training their ears to detect problems.

I barely use compressors either, i just don't like them. But that's me.

TBH mate, in as non a creepy way as possible would love to have a studio session with you one time I'm back in the UK to check your workflow etc

haha nah thats cool man, lol it's incredibly amateur to be honest i don't even own proper monitors.