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would it be wrong to suggest a merge with the God thread?

Can anyone explain how "Random genetic mutation" or evolution is made possible?

I know what it is, how it works, but what makes it possible? If everything can be explained as chemical reactions, then what is the chemical that allows the "random" mutation of cells & evolution?

How atoms became cells, then fish then birds then dinosaurs etc... its quite amazing, is it "random"? That seems like a simple answer to a complex concept.

Im not insinuating that it must be "God" or anything like that...

just curious as to the theories, is there research on this?

_v_ wrote: How atoms became cells, then fish then birds then dinosaurs etc... its quite amazing, is it "random"? That seems like a simple answer to a complex concept.

you forgot the first 2 parts: how nothing became something, and how something became atoms.

_v_ wrote:Can anyone explain how "Random genetic mutation" or evolution is made possible?

I know what it is, how it works, but what makes it possible? If everything can be explained as chemical reactions, then what is the chemical that allows the "random" mutation of cells & evolution?

How atoms became cells, then fish then birds then dinosaurs etc... its quite amazing, is it "random"? That seems like a simple answer to a complex concept.

Im not insinuating that it must be "God" or anything like that...

just curious as to the theories, is there research on this?

considering the apparent lack of evidence to suggest that there is life anywhere else in the universe as we know it at the moment i'm gona say that the probability that life forming from a chemical soup, is so slim that we are the exception which proves the rule

if a billion other planets fail to produce life, the odds are that one planet will produce life, and we are that planet... if it was easy to create conditions for life in the universe as we know and understand it, the universe would be teeming with evidence of intelligent life forms. As it is... it is utterly, hopelessly devoid of it.

The Universe is so vast, the chance of the random creation of life is tiny, but relative to size paradoxically huge when appendixed with the quantifier at least once.

Nevalo wrote:

_v_ wrote: How atoms became cells, then fish then birds then dinosaurs etc... its quite amazing, is it "random"? That seems like a simple answer to a complex concept.

you forgot the first 2 parts: how nothing became something, and how something became atoms.

Well put sir.

I think I have convenience myself that there is no such thing as a beginning of the universe with nothing, because how could an event happen in nothing. That would defeat the purpose of nothing, because that would be something. My brain feels funny.

_v_ wrote:Can anyone explain how "Random genetic mutation" or evolution is made possible?

I know what it is, how it works, but what makes it possible? If everything can be explained as chemical reactions, then what is the chemical that allows the "random" mutation of cells & evolution?

How atoms became cells, then fish then birds then dinosaurs etc... its quite amazing, is it "random"? That seems like a simple answer to a complex concept.

Im not insinuating that it must be "God" or anything like that...

just curious as to the theories, is there research on this?

I'm no biologist so have a Wikipedia link:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mutation

Mutation can occur through several different means, most of which are chemically based. Chemistry is rarely a definite thing, which is why producing something at 100% impurity is nigh on impossible, which is why mutation occurs.

There's probably millions and billions of other populated planets in our Universe full of other concious lifeforms who all wonder "What makes US so special? Why are we the only ones?????"
we really need to get out this "we are the centre of the universe" mindset that has a half-grip on this thread, and start appreciating the sheer enormity of the Universe. It's so much bigger than anybody could possibly comprehend - times infinity.
Life is a statistical inevitability. Deal with it.

hugh wrote:There's probably millions and billions of other populated planets in our Universe full of other concious lifeforms who all wonder "What makes US so special? Why are we the only ones?????"
we really need to get out this "we are the centre of the universe" mindset that has a half-grip on this thread.

There must be, in theory

hugh wrote:There's probably millions and billions of other populated planets in our Universe full of other concious lifeforms who all wonder "What makes US so special? Why are we the only ones?????"
we really need to get out this "we are the centre of the universe" mindset that has a half-grip on this thread, and start appreciating the sheer enormity of the Universe. It's so much bigger than anybody could possibly comprehend - times infinity.
Life is a statistical inevitability. Deal with it.

I really don't understand why this is so hard to grasp. The odds are in favor of there being life somewhere.

hugh wrote:There's probably millions and billions of other populated planets in our Galaxy.

hugh wrote:There's probably millions and billions of other populated planets in our Galaxy.

no. like most people, you've forgotten the dimension that boils all over this idea - time. you're stuck in a different "half-grip" of the assumption that we live in some sweet spot for life, and that everything that exists does so within our own tiny timeframe, which is foolish when you apply it to the same grand scale you expound upon.

or perhaps you were just oversimplifying for the point of this thread, i don't know.

edit: just saw that you even limited it to "our Galaxy" oh dear.

knell wrote:

hugh wrote:There's probably millions and billions of other populated planets in our Galaxy.

no. like most people, you've forgotten the dimension that boils all over this idea - time. you're stuck in a different "half-grip" of the assumption that we live in some sweet spot for life, and that everything that exists does so within our own tiny timeframe, which is foolish when you apply it to the same grand scale you expound upon.

or perhaps you were just oversimplifying for the point of this thread, i don't know.

edit: just saw that you even limited it to "our Galaxy" oh dear.

yes. yes. yes. yes.

carbon based life forms have such a relatively minute time frame for life that i believe its next to impossible that there's other life forms that exist NOW

thats not to say it is actually impossible and nor is it to say its untrue, but its massively, overwhelmingly unlikely

and THAT is the support for randomness, for the creation of life out of some primordial soup, that we ARE at this moment and for the tiny fraction of time we'll exist the exception which proves the rule

thats your logical argument, not - the universe is a big place so why not?

Eh, I don't think the odds are that low, considering how long life has been present on earth (about a fourth of the age of the universe).

Ah that makes sense, I'd not considered time in that way.
But because there's a huge (understatement) number of galaxies then the possibility of other life right now can't be that small surely.

Life doesn't need a lot of time to be created by organic chemistry but it does need a lot of time to evolve to more complex organisms.

There are three other places in our own solar system (excluding asteroids) that could potentially have life on them right now, Mars, Europa and Titan. But until we search these places we wont know for sure. When you factor in the amount of planets in the visible universe the odds don't seem that impossible.

This changes EVERYTHING

Dub_freak wrote:Life doesn't need a lot of time to be created by organic chemistry but it does need a lot of time to evolve to more complex organisms.

There are three other places in our own solar system (excluding asteroids) that could potentially have life on them right now, Mars, Europa and Titan. But until we search these places we wont know for sure. When you factor in the amount of planets in the visible universe the odds don't seem that impossible.

now do we get to argue the meaning of consciousness and traceable systemic DNA? that's always my favorite part of these discussions.

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news ... ence-life/