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creativity can really spawn from limitation tho echo wtf. best work situation imo is when most limited, make use of my tools as best as i can and get creative as i can.

Hypefiend wrote:creativity can really spawn from limitation tho echo wtf. best work situation imo is when most limited, make use of my tools as best as i can and get creative as i can.

I do agree that limitation can lead to creativity. But so can having everything you could possibly think of and more. Again, it's really just down to personal preference I suppose

There's definitely 2 sides the the limitation/creativity argument. The other way to view it is that you can use the right tool for the job, and save a ton of time.

I.e - I could spend hours trying to program a synth to sound like a piano, or i could just use a piano sample.

It really just comes down to personal preference. I don't think Reason is that limited anyhow - it's a fairly big program and would take months/years to learn and get the best out of it.

To be honest, when you're comfortable with a workflow, it's not a 'limitation'. Renoise has features out the ass, but what I like about it is its workflow. And it may not have a feature some other DAW has, but with its workflow, I can recreate that feature in a way that suits me best. So in a way, it doesn't feel like a limitation at all.

I'm just strict with myself with what I need. I really don't need more than 1 synth/delay/compressor/reverb/DAW/etc. But if there's a specific feature or tool that I feel compliments my workflow the most, then I'll try to incorporate it. The important thing to me is to try to get the idea out of my head and into my DAW with as few obstacles as possible. The rest doesn't matter to me.

Thor doesn't have an LFO that restarts (nor do the other stock synths in Reason).

Arbitrary limitations can be imposed voluntarily.

jonahmann wrote:Thor doesn't have an LFO that restarts (nor do the other stock synths in Reason).

yes it does

its conveniently called key sync, and it is right above the tempo sync...

To be fair.. Thor is a pretty good synth. I just don't think it is good enough to be worth missing out on all of the other synths that can be used outside of reason. I'm sure if it were sold as a vst or something outside of reason on it's own it would do pretty well.

VirtualMark wrote:It really just comes down to personal preference. I don't think Reason is that limited anyhow - it's a fairly big program and would take months/years to learn and get the best out of it.

exactly. I'm not hearing a lot of groundbreaking music that couldn't be done in Reason/Renoise/Ableton/Cubase, etc...

mr echo wrote:To be fair.. Thor is a pretty good synth. I just don't think it is good enough to be worth missing out on all of the other synths that can be used outside of reason. I'm sure if it were sold as a vst or something outside of reason on it's own it would do pretty well.

You'd lose half of it's functionality with the lack of CV routing though. Also it would be pretty much the only mono synth vst :/

Hypefiend wrote:creativity can really spawn from limitation tho echo wtf. best work situation imo is when most limited, make use of my tools as best as i can and get creative as i can.

I'm totally on this side of the limitation argument, as far as my own work goes, and so I find Reason very satisfying to use. Anyway, the sound design possibilities with the Reason synths are still basically infinite despite their limitations, especially given the Modulation Matrix in Thor - it's just a lower-dimensional infinity than you get in the wide world of VST's. I'm pretty sure I would be paralyzed by the choices if I switched to a VST system. I've gotten a few Rack Extensions but not used them much yet, and I'm not in a hurry to take advantage of Reason 7's new features.

The music I like listening to the most, and which is most inspiring for my own production, tends to use minimal means - only a few instruments per track, assembled in a compelling way, and often with fairly simply generated sounds. The way that the chords in dub techno can vary wildly in timbre just by bandpassing a plain ol' saw wave at varying frequencies is a primary example of this for me.

But I also totally respect those who want the greater infinity of possibilities inherent in VST's, because that provides more ways to push music ever further out into new realms, and that's all to the good.

Reason makes producers smarter. Rather than pressing a "sound good button" on a VST, you learn what creates that great sound and how to achieve it.

MoonUnit wrote:Reason makes producers smarter. Rather than pressing a "sound good button" on a VST, you learn what creates that great sound and how to achieve it.

If there was a 'sound good' button on some VSTs more people would be making stuff that actually sounds good. You still need to learn things like you would in reason, VSTs just give you more ways to skin your cat.. so to speak

MoonUnit wrote:Reason makes producers smarter. Rather than pressing a "sound good button" on a VST, you learn what creates that great sound and how to achieve it.

There are no sound good buttons on anything. Some Vst's do have features original to that certain plugin... but you still have to learn how to use it!

LOL

There's actually a lot of vsts with sound good knobs or buttons. I do like some of em though

Okay, here's an example. WOW filter. I've heard a bunch of people on this forum say they've tried using it... but do they actually know how it works? I could create something similar in Reason using an automated EQ or a couple bandpass filters (I'm ignoring the formant filter on Thor for this example) and save it as a combinator, creating my own "VST" so to speak. At least 50% of the people on this forum would go ahead and slap a wow filter on something knowing what it does to the sound, but not how or why.

MoonUnit wrote:but not how or why.

Why would you care if you're only out to make good music? I don't know how my dishwasher is programmed, does that mean i can't use it? It's up to what you want, there's no right answer here. Personally i like knowing the technical shit behind stuff, and i know a LOT of technical shit, but honestly, it has not helped me make better music in the slightest. It's just another thing i'm interested in.

Coming 30th of april

RmoniK wrote:

MoonUnit wrote:but not how or why.

Why would you care if you're only out to make good music? I don't know how my dishwasher is programmed, does that mean i can't use it? It's up to what you want, there's no right answer here. Personally i like knowing the technical shit behind stuff, and i know a LOT of technical shit, but honestly, it has not helped me make better music in the slightest. It's just another thing i'm interested in.

Well that's really a shame that none of the technical knowledge has helped you move your music forward...

So if I have a degree in dishwashing technology and you only have the hands on experience, who is going to get the cleanest dishes with the least amount of energy consumption?

You're missing the point. You said they should know how are why something affects their sounds, even if they know what it does to the sound itself, and i'm saying that's pointless if you're just out to make good music, since knowing what it does to the sound is all you should know then.