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legend4ry wrote:Vinyl don't work anymore really either..

Vinyl should now just be limited editions runs of a few hundred for collectors, once they know the tune has done well download wise and there is a demand, then they charge a little more to makeup for the production cost and have some capital to move forward. Seems to be the model working for a lot of smaller niche labels. The amount of shite getting pressed to vinyl, not selling, still amazes me.

I think there's an important point from mr sparrow though in that music is an organic process that takes time and doesn't need to be for everyone...for me dubstep is now obsessed with the idea that it's moving forward...but it's very limited in a different way...so to appear progressive at the moment you just need to make a tribal beat...I personally have always made music I love and haven't been affected by fashion...I may personally be jacking it in if the next couple of releases don't get pushed/go well as I am not interested in a scene where churning tunes out quickly to ensure you're on the pulse and in line with the current trend gets you noticed...music takes time to get right...it seems the people that can bang a tune out that's well mixed down and polished in a day will be the artists that get support now and those that spend as long as it takes to get music right will be left behind.

Pedro Sánchez wrote:

legend4ry wrote:Vinyl don't work anymore really either..

Vinyl should now just be limited editions runs of a few hundred for collectors, once they know the tune has done well download wise and there is a demand, then they charge a little more to makeup for the production cost and have some capital to move forward. Seems to be the model working for a lot of smaller niche labels. The amount of shite getting pressed to vinyl, not selling, still amazes me.

Costs relatively the same to cut 200 or 1000.

Pistonsbeneath wrote:it seems the people that can bang a tune out that's well mixed down and polished in a day will be the artists that get support now and those that spend as long as it takes to get music right will be left behind.

And that's why it's mostly disposable shit that is forgettable.

Lye Form wrote:

Pedro Sánchez wrote:

legend4ry wrote:Vinyl don't work anymore really either..

Vinyl should now just be limited editions runs of a few hundred for collectors, once they know the tune has done well download wise and there is a demand, then they charge a little more to makeup for the production cost and have some capital to move forward. Seems to be the model working for a lot of smaller niche labels. The amount of shite getting pressed to vinyl, not selling, still amazes me.

Costs relatively the same to cut 200 or 1000.

Really? I'm talking like with some good artwork and extras, like a proper collectors piece, not just a sleeve and sticker.

I think the whole process from the ground up needs rethinking

everyone seems to be kidding themselves on a manufacturing level and yeah they need to cover THEIR costs but what happens when everyone stops pressing records because it isn't worth it?

Pistonsbeneath wrote:I think the whole process from the ground up needs rethinking

everyone seems to be kidding themselves on a manufacturing level and yeah they need to cover THEIR costs but what happens when everyone stops pressing records because it isn't worth it?

Home 3D printers will of perfected making records by that time and will be at a consumer price point. Hopefully.

Pedro Sánchez wrote:

Pistonsbeneath wrote:I think the whole process from the ground up needs rethinking

everyone seems to be kidding themselves on a manufacturing level and yeah they need to cover THEIR costs but what happens when everyone stops pressing records because it isn't worth it?

Home 3D printers will of perfected making records by that time and will be at a consumer price point. Hopefully.

It will be a very long time before they have the ability to print in such detail, the grooves are tiny.




The current way to sell vinyl is make it limited 300/500 press unless you are someone like Mala who can easily sell out 1000 mala in cuba boxes for £30. I think the vinyl market will continue to shrink but personally I will continue to buy vinyl.

i always figured the vinyl market was actually growing. Considering all the new people that are listening to electronic music.

apparently it is. but so is the cost.

well its actually growing:



US:



and in the UK:

http://www.musicweek.com/news/read/the- ... 5-3/053035

However.... 337,000 sold in 2012 in the uk, with a population of 62,740,000... one record for every 200 people, so if you bought 20 records last year (pretty low average for people on this site?) there were almost 4000 people that didn't... rare breed record buyers.

Brought this up before, but aren't the majority of the increase in sales on "classic" represses/the huge albums pressed by major labels due to vinyl being in fashion at the moment rather than underground labels?

garethom wrote:Brought this up before, but aren't the majority of the increase in sales on "classic" represses/the huge albums pressed by major labels due to vinyl being in fashion at the moment rather than underground labels?

Yes urban outfitters and similar selling albums at 30 quid a pop have something to do with this.

Pistonsbeneath wrote:I think the whole process from the ground up needs rethinking

everyone seems to be kidding themselves on a manufacturing level and yeah they need to cover THEIR costs but what happens when everyone stops pressing records because it isn't worth it?

This is the crux of the downfall of vinyl. When pressing houses completely price out the small indies by doing minimum of 500 runs or charge the same price for a 300 run. Maybe you want to make your vinyl release an event, some nice colour artwork (extra 300), colour record stickers (extra 100). God forbid you have anything niche like virgin vinyl or weight considerations. And even after that the majority of pressing plants will only work with specific distribution houses, forcing a lot of smaller time label onto P&D just to get the product in the first place, and you know they're taking their cut as well.

I'd like there to be an increase in the made to order market (though currently that'll still cost about 20 quid a pop), we tried it with Soul Motive, but the costs were prohibitive. There has to be some way of producing, cutting records cheaper without losing quality.

Have to say Pete I really liked the records I bought from your label and liked the code to download thing as well...surprised it didn't work out for you...I rarely venture into my vinyl that's all on shelves in the spare room but know I have SMR001, SMR002, SMR003, SMR005 & SMR006

My fave tune you guys put out is into the sunset by forsaken...nothing quite like it out there and we need more labels willing to take risks in the way yours did...but i guess sadly people didn't buy it in enough quantities and instead want something more familiar and instant...

To be honest though I can hardly afford to buy anything and as such quit buying vinyl a while ago so I am a part of the problem...

Pistonsbeneath wrote: My fave tune you guys put out is into the sunset by forsaken...nothing quite like it out there and we need more labels willing to take risks in the way yours did..

Taking risks cus thats Petes music.

Taiko Riddim should have had a white label release, would have copped without a doubt:

Soundcloud

Never knew you were forsaken Pete genuinely...best music you put out!

*hounds Pete for any vips on his hard drive*

Lye Form wrote:

Pistonsbeneath wrote: My fave tune you guys put out is into the sunset by forsaken...nothing quite like it out there and we need more labels willing to take risks in the way yours did..

Taking risks cus thats Petes music.

Taiko Riddim should have had a white label release, would have copped without a doubt:

Soundcloud

Cheers lads, I actually argued against putting it out, especially as our second release, I thought we should have more established names, with something with more mass appeal. We ended up pressing 750 and selling out (after free pr copies etc) about 680. After artwork, free mp3s, P&D cut, Z-Audio fucking us about, it really didn't earn us a lot (to put it in context, the Joker TRG release sold about 1400), in fact I think we made enough for the next release extras, but not enough to ditch the P&D. We really hit problems with the last 5 releases, despite the names we secured and the effort in presentation, we were struggling to sell 300 units per release.

Pistons, you on skype? Hit me up with an address I'll send some stuff over! in the meantime check out my band! www.soundcloud.com/isoladusk

I'd argue the vinyl market isn't growing for dance music (and the increase of laptop and digital djs supports this), but more for indie rock 7"s and pop stuff as it's become somewhat of a hipsters collector's item.
Hell the names that have come to be associated with dubstep for the layman (like it or not) like Skrillex etc have never even been on wax, nor do they seem to have plans to touch physical media distribution either.
People hate to hear it, but the vinyl market for dance music has become a niche market.

alright pete i like you 2 you know