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The soul just seems to be an abstract concept, probably born out of religion, that people have tried to adapt into a non-religious framework of the body and mind.

Are there any core principles of the mind that means it HAS to exist?

"Shes my soul mate" "He has no soul" .. just seems very vague and abstract and to me.. meaningless.

jesslem wrote:Imagine that you had undergone a brain transplant. Would you still be yourself in another body or would cease to be?

Initially you would be the same but in a different body but you would adapt to your new body and eventually change the way you are, just like when people move to a different country or what not.. they may change who they are; to a certain degree. People would treat you different and that would eventually change your behavior and who you are. Your body cells die and replace themselves all the time anyway so when you die you're in a completely different body to when you was born, the brain cells don't change. I guess the input would be different in a new body but the processing of that input would be the same.

jesslem wrote:Would you agree that your soul, whatever it may be, would go with you?

No idea what a soul is so its hard to answer. How do you answer if an abstract thing stays with you in an actual brain, that has to be a hard, if not impossible, question to answer unless you have a solid definition of what a soul is.

jesslem wrote:Would you say that your soul had died in the transplant? Does the death of your soul in this case equate to death in the traditional sense?

Again, I dunno how you can argue either way.. a soul dying is an abstract (and mostly meaningless to me) event whereas a transplant of your actual brain would be a very real event.

Well look at the question I just posed. To me, and many others, the word soul is just a word that exists that we can use to describe the thing that I was talking about there.
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Wait, are you saying that a human is just a body? If so, why?

I edited and answered. No a human is a body and the brain.. the mind is a function of the brain.. further than that and its too abstract for me to bother with.

I find the argument that because our brains are more complex/evolved/our consciousness is unique that we have 'souls' and animals don't a bit arrogant. We're just more advanced, I dunno where in evolution this abstract thing suddenly popped up.

Seems like a placeholder for stuff we don't understand. Feelings, emotions, experiences.. "must be the soul".

You got distracted by my choice of words.


If your brain were to be transplanted to another body, would you still be yourself?

Muncey wrote: I find the argument that because our brains are more complex/evolved/our consciousness is unique that we have 'souls' and animals don't a bit arrogant. We're just more advanced, I dunno where in evolution this abstract thing suddenly popped up.

I definitely agree, though I also believe that plants and animals do have souls.

Whats "yourself"?

Say today you take your brain out and stick it in another body, yeah I believe you'd be pretty much the same person.. assuming you still have all your memories and stuff. But as you adapt to your new body you'll inevitably change. But that change doesn't mean you aren't yourself anymore.. you'll change as much as you'd change normally. Who you are today isn't necessarily who you'll be in the future.. but you're still you.

So yeah you'll still be yourself you'll just change and adapt in a very different way than if you was left in your own body. But you'll still be you.

What do you think? Does the soul die when the brain leaves the body and you become someone else? Do you obtain the soul of this new body? Does the soul define who you are?

Yourself is essentially you as you identify with it. Moreover, what ultimately makes you distinguishable from someone else. I think...

You seem to get it in the last part of the second paragraph. But wouldn't you have been yourself before you had memories?

jesslem wrote:Yourself is essentially you as you identify with it. Moreover, what ultimately makes you distinguishable from someone else. I think...

I think thats a good answer actually, what makes you distinguishable from someone else.. so 'yourself' would be the combination of physical and mental. Assume you end up in an accident at 30 and your memories are wiped and you have to start again, you'd essentially still be "yourself" you'd just grow into a different version of yourself. Equally put the brain into a different body and you're still yourself, you'll just grow and adapt into a different version. But in my eyes that removes the need for a soul, the removal of the body would make you no more or less yourself than removing the "information" in the brain.

jesslem wrote:You seem to get it in the last part of the second paragraph. But wouldn't you have been yourself before you had memories?

Yeah you'd be yourself but memories and experiences (inputs) are what gives 'yourself' any substance and meaning.

I see it similarly, but I think that 'you' is a constant. Where the 'you' comes from I can't say, but I don't agree that two things that aren't equivalent are the same.

I believe it's the capital of South Korea

the pineal gland aka the 3rd eye

idk if this relates but i like Huxley's theory about consciousness and the brain as a reducing valve. anyone else read Doors of Perception?

"you do not have a soul. you ARE a soul. you HAVE a body"

a myriad of spherical unwinding and coiling spinning mechanisms
overlapping they fall in and out of each other.
its a bit fast and whirly when they all spin but its a must if your not to get stuck in a wrong truth in the right moment.

Sonika wrote:the pineal gland aka the 3rd eye

Do you even know what the pineal gland is?

It just releases hormones like melatonin.

Why have people (hippies) latched on to the pineal gland and made it into something massive when it is just another gland. Why not worship the pituitary gland?

rick strassman did some research with DMT that suggested that it could be released from the pineal gland, which would make sense bc DMT is a fairly basic compound that's only two pharmacological steps away from tryptophan, an amino acid that makes up everything

Is that what you think your soul is? DMT?
You need to close your third eye and evaluate your life man.

m8son wrote:

Sonika wrote:the pineal gland aka the 3rd eye

Do you even know what the pineal gland is?

It just releases hormones like melatonin.

Why have people (hippies) latched on to the pineal gland and made it into something massive when it is just another gland. Why not worship the pituitary gland?

i think you can blame descartes for that http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/pineal-gland/

The "soul" is an outdated concept that assumes that our existence, our being, our mind, has been bestowed on us by the creator/God/some supernatural force/the universe. It traditionally had such positive meaning that meant a lot to us (perhaps we feel/felt like we owe our 'humanity' to it, so the concept may be popular because it reaffirms the human ego), that we have tried to adapt the concept to secular society, but since secular society has mostly moved away from the constructs of the ancient, theocentric civilisations, our attempts to incorporate ithe concept in our modern lives fall short and we have trouble explaining it.

The soul is nothing. It's nothing that we can't use the word 'mind' for, without any of the supernatural/mystical/historical baggage.

I think you're reading into this too moralistically. Don't need to be sure of your own existence to participate in a discussion about it imo.

the soul is what makes us one and the same through the fact that we are all different



thread needs some soul train:

Genevieve wrote:The "soul" is an outdated concept that assumes that our existence, our being, our mind, has been bestowed on us by the creator/God/some supernatural force/the universe. It traditionally had such positive meaning that meant a lot to us (perhaps we feel/felt like we owe our 'humanity' to it, so the concept may be popular because it reaffirms the human ego), that we have tried to adapt the concept to secular society, but since secular society has mostly moved away from the constructs of the ancient, theocentric civilisations, our attempts to incorporate ithe concept in our modern lives fall short and we have trouble explaining it.

The soul is nothing. It's nothing that we can't use the word 'mind' for, without any of the supernatural/mystical/historical baggage.

yeah was going to say that soul = mind (and mind =/= brain)

on a related note, went to some spiritual whatever woman a couple of days ago. told me my soul was 9 billion years old and now i came into being out of my own will. at least now i have a reply the next time some bitch calls me immature.