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i still like the breaks at the end

calling dubstep half tempo dnb is just discrediting the scene and the people that were involved in it

maybe now people try to overstate its importance due to the techno / house purism of recent years and reinforce the whole nuum mythology

Skream's In 4 The Kill remix always bored the hell out of me. Super simple and lacked energy. The breaks bit felt like a "oohh let's make it ravey and people go nuts" move rather than just fitting into the structure of the track in a natural way to me. I still feel the same about it now.Time's completely not changed it for me. The only thing different is I thought it was a huge crossoever into the mainstream for dubstep and well, considering what's happened since it really wasn't

ultraspatial wrote:calling dubstep half tempo dnb is just discrediting the scene and the people that were involved in it

maybe now people try to overstate its importance due to the techno / house purism of recent years and reinforce the whole nuum mythology

you say im callin it dnb? nah man, im just saying i like the breaks, aint putting a label on it

hubb wrote:I consider Burial, James Blake and maybe ones that were more hiphop like Hudmo etc as being part of that healthy post insert step period.

Hmmm, I think you're conflating stuff here. James Blake and Hudmo are certainly "post" Dubstep, but Burial was there in the infancy. His self-titled album came out in 2006 about the same time as Kode9/Spaceape were doing Memories Of The Future and only a few months after Anti War Dub came out. Burial was so Dubstep, he didn't even make "Dubstep" by today's standards half the time... it was an experimenters scene at that point. Kode9, DMZ, Burial, Skream etc were pushing sonic boundaries and still defining the culture - Kode9 was releasing 'concept' pieces like Sine Of The Dub, staying absolutely rooted in Dub culture, Coki and Vex'd were using more DnB influence to make terrifying sounds, Burial was coming from more Garage and Hardcore roots and Kode9 could cram them all into some of the best and most varied DJ Sets any of us ever saw. Dubstep and Breakcore were frequently on the same bills in places like Bristol because they had a similar pioneering spirit about them even if they had barely any sonic resemblance.

Well after Burial released his SECOND album he was followed by people like James Blake came along (Limit To Your Love debuting on Electronic Explorations 72 was 2009, 3 years after Burial's first album!) then we were definitely into the "post" phase, the laws had been written and hundreds of bedroom producers had cottoned onto Loopmasters sample packs, side-chaining and Brutal Electro... Dubstep wasn't the Wild West anymore, it had started to become Hollywood and we were watching James Blake making Gone With The Wind instead of Kode9 panning for gold.

kay wrote:Also, there were loads of awesome dubstep tunes with awesome female vocals before In 4 The Kill came along. Geiom's Reminiscin with Marita, Warrior Queen on Poison Dart (ok not sure whether she'd count as being divaesque), D1's Mind + Soul come immediately to mind.

16 Bit remixes of Toxic and The Book Of Right On (Shallow), too.

With regards to the track I don't have a hostile response when I hear it, but I'd never play out of will. Also, fuck La Roux in general, really annoying synths in their tunes and generally cringey lyrics.

JizzMan wrote:

ultraspatial wrote:calling dubstep half tempo dnb is just discrediting the scene and the people that were involved in it

maybe now people try to overstate its importance due to the techno / house purism of recent years and reinforce the whole nuum mythology

you say im callin it dnb? nah man, im just saying i like the breaks, aint putting a label on it

not u

I kind of know the history Magma. I was more talking stylistically, and meant to say 'post' as a stylistic signifier. I can see how that's 'idiotic' though .

Vex'd used to make breakcore and hang out with my m8. But Kuedo would never consider his melodic stuff dubstep if you asked him now. It's probably about other people that have that need and not the artist.

ultraspatial wrote:calling dubstep half tempo dnb is just discrediting the scene and the people that were involved in it

maybe now people try to overstate its importance due to the techno / house purism of recent years and reinforce the whole nuum mythology

If anything it's creative purism but that doesn't make it any less arrogant I'm sure.

hubb wrote:I kind of know the history Magma. I was more talking stylistically, and meant to say 'post' as a stylistic signifier. I can see how that's 'idiotic' though .

Vex'd used to make breakcore and hang out with my m8. But Kuedo would never consider his melodic stuff dubstep if you asked him now. It's probably about other people that have that need and not the artist.

I think the big change comes when a "scene" turns into a formal "genre". People involved in a creative scene are making music for the sake of it, feeding off each other, impressing each other, pushing boundaries and discovering new approaches together. At some point the number of people involved reaches a cut-off point and everyone's having less impact on everyone else - there are too many people claiming to be "Dubstep" for anyone to re-imagine it again. The rules get set in stone, the techniques are published in Internet FAQs; the artists who still want to be artists fuck off somewhere new and the wannabe-machine starts pumping out a hundred poor copies of the originators' masterworks every day on Soundcloud.

When Vex'd released Degenerate they weren't following the same rigid ruleset that DSFers in the Production forum eventually would; they were helping create them. Dubstep was a scene at the time, but it hadn't been formally defined (and therefore limited) as a genre yet... Burial was making tunes like Distant Lights which were ~10 bpm slower than what eventually became the rule for "Dubstep", but to anyone paying attention, he was quite obviously part of the same formative scene as Kode9, Mala, Skream and Coki... to acts like Vex'd, Kode9 and Burial, I think "Dubstep" originally meant something entirely different to what it means to people who discovered it after about 2008 and what it means to people like Skream or Skrillex today. It meant creativity, imagination and fresh ideas... occasionally it meant having to sit through Bass Clef doing a trombone solo in a basement. By 2008 the rules were in place and creativity became optional. The entire country seemed to fawn over Benga for one of the safest, beigest, most coffee-table records anyone has ever released. Fast forward to 2009 and the creativity that was at the very heart of the sound is no longer important - it's not a surprise to me in the slightest that an act like Vex'd wouldn't want anything to do with it anymore.

cool

magma wrote:the big change comes when a "scene" turns into a formal "genre".

This statement is false.

hubb wrote:

ultraspatial wrote:calling dubstep half tempo dnb is just discrediting the scene and the people that were involved in it

maybe now people try to overstate its importance due to the techno / house purism of recent years and reinforce the whole nuum mythology

If anything it's creative purism but that doesn't make it any less arrogant I'm sure.

Dubstep didn't even really come into its' own until that Mt. Eden remix of Sierra Leone, IMO

<3 mt eden u will always be in my heart.

ultraspatial wrote:

hubb wrote:

ultraspatial wrote:calling dubstep half tempo dnb is just discrediting the scene and the people that were involved in it

maybe now people try to overstate its importance due to the techno / house purism of recent years and reinforce the whole nuum mythology

If anything it's creative purism but that doesn't make it any less arrogant I'm sure.

ohh sorry. I mean, I know my opinions can be arrogant or just long and annoying

svpreme wrote:Dubstep didn't even really come into its' own until that Mt. Eden remix of Sierra Leone, IMO

Dubstep didn't exist until Snoop Dogg created Snoop Dogg Millionaire tbh.

I seem to remember quite a few of the posters in this thread loving the Skream remix of In for the Kill and Skream in general, personally I still do. You fickle fickle people!

collige wrote:

svpreme wrote:Dubstep didn't even really come into its' own until that Mt. Eden remix of Sierra Leone, IMO

Dubstep didn't exist until Snoop Dogg created Snoop Dogg Millionaire tbh.

You're not a true head unless you were here for the deleted Mt Eden threads.

deadly habit wrote:I seem to remember quite a few of the posters in this thread loving the Skream remix of In for the Kill and Skream in general, personally I still do. You fickle fickle people!

I will take full responsibility tbh but didn't like it back then either.