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And obviously not all Christians are homophobes but Christianity does teach that it's "wrong" to be gay which is not very ethical in my eyes.

jsml wrote:

butter_man wrote:

jsml wrote:^ That is one of the most ridiculous paragraphs I have ever read.

Actually more ridiculous than the Bible it's self.

explain why.

OK.

butter_man wrote:Its not just anti-gay though and not all christians are homophobes just like Im not a hundred percent sold on the idea, but it says: thou shall not kill, before the bible it was: you can kill but Im gonna kill you back or maybe your brother or a cousin. eye for an eye less morally upstanding more existentially inconvenienced. considering if you kill in society (today) you go to prison and not get the chance to be killed by the person wronged. it seems that the moral enforced by the state is of christian values, is it not?
and you adhering to this, you otherwise murdersome so and so you, is bound by christian ethics, no?

So first of all what is it you're not 100% sold on? Being gay? Give it a try you might like it. religion. I would defo be gay if I was remotely interested

And obviously not all Christians are homophobes but Christianity does teach that it's "wrong" to be gay which is not very ethical in my eyes. it also teaches love, compassion and forgiveness as well. and considering christian: doesnt equal homophobe and a great deal of christian are decent folk we can stop singing from the anti-gay means christianity is all bad hymn sheet

The idea of not killing people did not originate with the bible, As people have mentioned already there are several religions/philosophies that teach the same that are far older than Christianity. yes, but most people in this conversation I assume are from countries where christianity is the main religion therefore the learnings of morality would be from a system designed off of that

"considering if you kill in society (today) you go to prison and not get the chance to be killed by the person wronged" - well they're dead aren't they? you killed them so it would be pretty hard for them to kill you back. semantics but assunimg you dont know what I meant I meant revenge attack on you or a family member by a family member of the deceased

Also "an eye for an eye" is a (stupid) biblical teaching so if the state was truly implementing christian values they wouldn't lock you up, they'd kill you (I am aware that America still does this - thankfully i'm English) revenge killings where practiced in societies before the bible though

I'm from a family of at least 3 generations of Atheists and none of us have ever killed anyone - not because of any religious beliefs but because we aren't all full of murderous rage which you seem to believe is the human default setting. bit of straw manism and assumptions. I dont believe its the default setting but know that it happens and has happened since day dot. murder that is, whether or not it has more weight based on the placing of moral implication via religion is for you to decide but Im guessing it is. and atheists, yes! you made your moral values from scratch. born with a blank canvas and scratched about untill it dawned on you what was right or wrong with no feedback or influence from anything outside of your tight knit family

Obviously Christianity has played a role in shaping the ethical values of our countries yes,yes, your right in the past but it actually isn't all that relevant now, we have ethical values based on just that - ethics when did we have the big overhaul. wiped the slate clean and rewrote the book? we haven't we just built on the existing modelled the christian model. with a few adptations here and there to keep it contemporary. For instance gay marriage is legal in England now and we have anti-discrimination laws to protect gay people. That ain't no Christianity.

I don't really get your point. I'm just saying that I don't think teaching that homosexuality is wrong is ethical.

Phigure wrote:why is it then that we can see both humans and animals (particularly social ones), who have no concept of god, partaking in non-reciprocity motivated behavior, eg altruism?

its almost like moral behavior is a trait naturally selected for because it improves group cohesion and survival... wild

OGLemon wrote:Technically Judaism is older than Buddhism; unless you mean Rabbinic Judaism, that's about as old as Islam.

leyenda wrote:

OGLemon wrote:Technically Judaism is older than Buddhism; unless you mean Rabbinic Judaism, that's about as old as Islam.

Ah yeah my bad, it's Hinduism that's the oldest of the major religions

OGLemon wrote:The Buddha was a follower of the ancient form of Hinduism

Then the LORD said, "My Spirit shall not strive with man forever, because he also is flesh; nevertheless his days shall be one hundred and twenty years." The Nephilim were on the earth in those days, and also afterward, when the sons of God came in to the daughters of men, and they bore children to them. Those were the mighty men who were of old, men of renown. Then the LORD saw that the wickedness of man was great on the earth, and that every intent of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.…