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This is a bit long-winded but relates to this topic, from a Red Bull Music Academy interview with DJ Krust, I found it quite interesting:

RBMA: »And what are you using now? What did you use for the last record?«

Krust: »On the last album I’ve got Pro Tools for sequencing and I did have a Mackie desk, I’ve got rid of it now. But I went back, I used the 760 sampler and a new Roland sampler, keyboard and stuff. I tried to make the last album… I did in the essence of what I got my best results in. I listened to all my tunes, I put them on a CD, like ‘Soul In Motion’, ‘Warhead’, ‘True Stories’, I put about ten of my favourite tunes that I did, I put them onto my iPod and I listened to them for about six months. I wanted to get back into the spirit, back into that essence, back into the vibe of how I used to make music. Because of the technology it’s like: “Yeah, let’s get this new plug-in, lets get this new thing.” And it got to a point where I was like: “Hold on a minute.” I used to make tunes with a 14 second sampler and one broken speaker and a dodgy turntable and I was getting blinded by the technology. Technology is here to help us, to get to somewhere it doesn’t replace that. You people use the computers now and you’ve got endless amounts of sample time in there, endless plug-in’s all these presets and all these standard sounds and I went: “You know what? I have to get back to what’s really me.” So I sat down, listened to my tunes, listened to what I was about, and got my sampler out. Sat down, got my old samples out, started to listen to them again, got all my old records out, started to listen to them again and thought: ‘Ok, let me just get back to what I do best’, and I just sat down and started to sample again. Spent two days sampling, two days editing, two days making sounds, three days chopping sounds up, making basses again. I was like: “Ok, cool, I know what I’m going to do, I know what I’m about now.”«

RBMA: »So it’s fair to say that some of the most beautiful things come from the most limited means?«

Krust: »I think that you are forced to do things you don’t normally do when you haven’t got the resources to do them. Its all about being creative and having imagination. You really are stuck and what happens when you don’t have the resources you need it makes you be creative, it makes you think in another way. ‘How can I make this sound like that, how can I make this sample sound like that?’ We discovered the art of sampling on one and a half seconds. Our first sampler had 14 seconds, you had to use it wisely. You’d make a whole tune in 14 seconds, that takes a lot of skill. Really understanding a break. All you need of a beat is two and a half seconds. And you loop it and you learn how to make a loop. The 760 is great, before that we had the 550 and the 330 and they had functions on there where you could loop forward, loop backwards, loop and continual loop so it had all these different things on it. So we’d have one beat doing loop forwards, loop backwards, continual loop, so in a track you’d have different mixes of the same beat looping at different start points. We got creative that way. Same thing with basses. You’d have a bass, which would go one way then the other way and you’d do a fill. We got in deep, that’s all we had, 14 seconds, you had to understand how to use that and get the most out of it.«

RBMA: »So would you recommend if people get creative block to just bring it back to basics?«

Krust: »Do you know what I’ve done? Got rid of all my shit. I’ve gone back to basics, gone back to how I used to make music. Got rid of my desk, got rid of all this other stuff, all these modules I’d bought. I sat in there and saw all these modules and thought: ‘Where do I start?’ I’m going to try and do this, try and do that and I thought: ‘You know what? Make life simple.’ Go back to the simplest way that you can make music and start from there, have a start point. For me it was about sampling records and a sampler and my Atari so I’ve gone back… I haven’t gone back to the Atari, that’s too far back, but I’ve gone far as back as I can go back and still be current as well.«

I definitely agree with some of the above, I find it a bit nauseating in a way to think about all the possiblities of what you can do even in a program like Reason (which I hear is relatively basic) sometimes... obviously it's liberating/exciting as well but you wonder how easy it is to get bogged down in technical specificities rather than concentrating on what you really want a tune to be...

I understand what he is saying and it obviously works for him but these days with software you can do everything he is talking about doing about 20 times as quick. Plus the whole idea of an artist going back to their roots and shit is so cliche'd that it sounds like bullshit no matter who's saying it.

I started on fruity loops 2 like 9 years ago now? It's been stop and start but it's still a learning process. I like to keep things simple myself and I'm more about the music than the technical shit. I tend to start with my beat and if i dont get something sounding nice down within 15-20 minutes i move on, same goes with all my other sounds. I find my best tracks are ones that somehow come together the quickest. My favourite tune I made in less than an hour it was unbelievable. If i had to spend hours and hours on it then more often than not it's just not gonna work as a track for me.

manray wrote:Plus the whole idea of an artist going back to their roots and shit is so cliche'd that it sounds like bullshit no matter who's saying it.

"I'm going back to my roots..."

=

"My last few albums didn't sell, so I'm going to rip off the one that made me famous."

This is the outline of a Robert Henke (Monolake) workshop, taken from the ARCK link on www.monolake.de:

"Title : Too Many Choices - how to make music if everything is possible

Abstract : Music software has reached a state where its possibilities exceed the knowledge of most users. While it has become very easy to create sound, a lot of people are completely overwhelmed by what their tools offer and get confused and defocused.

The solution : Usage of only a few tools and trying to understand them well enough to master them."

Krust's got a point. Limiting yourself gives you more control and therefore allows you to be more intelligent in your creativity. If I only knew Logic's ES2 inside out...

manray wrote:I understand what he is saying and it obviously works for him but these days with software you can do everything he is talking about doing about 20 times as quick. Plus the whole idea of an artist going back to their roots and shit is so cliche'd that it sounds like bullshit no matter who's saying it.

True, but then I suppose you might argue that if you can do everything really quickly you might not even think about whether or not it's worth doing...

Interesting what you said about tracks you like coming together quickly, thinking about it I'd tend to agree with you. The worst thing I can do on reason is end up working on an 8 bar loop for three hours...

Corpsey wrote:

manray wrote:I understand what he is saying and it obviously works for him but these days with software you can do everything he is talking about doing about 20 times as quick. Plus the whole idea of an artist going back to their roots and shit is so cliche'd that it sounds like bullshit no matter who's saying it.

True, but then I suppose you might argue that if you can do everything really quickly you might not even think about whether or not it's worth doing...

Interesting what you said about tracks you like coming together quickly, thinking about it I'd tend to agree with you. The worst thing I can do on reason is end up working on an 8 bar loop for three hours...

But then again its down to personal preferance. Some people take weeks working on beats etc... and thats how they enjoy working (I think photek worked like this in the early days?). If you are using presets and coming up with awesome melodies/beats etc... Who is to say that is wrong?

I think with that article you put up it could just be a way of being comfortable with the production process, theres no point in getting bogged down with bare equipment where it would take you hours to get a sound out of one piece of kit then spending hours getting sounds out of the rest, when you could just be getting to the nitty gritty and being happy with it.

Abstract : Music software has reached a state where its possibilities exceed the knowledge of most users. While it has become very easy to create sound, a lot of people are completely overwhelmed by what their tools offer and get confused and defocused.

whenever i'm doing something on reason, if there is a button/knob/whatever i don't understand, in that i mean i don't understand it's purpose, where about it lies within the synthesising process and therefore what it will do to the sound itself, I simply look up in the search content, which basically tells you what EVERYTHING does. Gaining knowledge on how to use your machines to the fullest potential means you are much more likely to come out with something good, at a reasonable rate. Taking it one step at a time is a slow process, but always try out some new things whenever you start up, its fun to learn and to understand how something works, and even though the initial output might be a bit crappy, you will learn how to incorporate that particular technique into another tune you are making at a later date.
At the end of the day, music is simply maths, and as is the case with maths there is almost always more than one way to work out a question.

Is music maths?

@CRASHFF: I agree, obviously it comes down to personal taste. I think the key is to not let obsession with technique overshadow appreciation of effect...

how can u not appreciate music is just a form of maths?

Corpsey wrote:Is music maths?

@CRASHFF: I agree, obviously it comes down to personal taste. I think the key is to not let obsession with technique overshadow appreciation of effect...

You are right definately. I suppose if you spend less time on it and just bash out tunes quickly, you are less likely to critique your work as hard, which can be a whole world of pain. Tearing out your hair at 4 in the morning because you can't get that perfect sound.

I've sat down in friends studio's with big mixing desks and tonnes of outboard gear and I've tried to make tracks and have not gotten anywhere because I've been bogged down in shit I don't know. Whereas someone else can jump in and be like boom theres a beat in 5 minutes and it sounds good!

Its not the complexity that is the issue it's your own level of knowledge of the tools you have at hand. I agree it's important to work within your limits because otherwise creativity is stifled. (thats the bit i agree on)

Though there's no chance i'm gonna break it down back to fruity loops again!

Auan wrote:

Corpsey wrote:I'm a complete novice- I use the synths that are included in reason, put them through reverb/delay/phasing etc. though but I'm definitely thinking that I've got to start trying to make some of my own synths/sounds. Not sure how good Reason is for doing this as it seems relatively paininthearsey to import/use/timestretch samples in it...

NN-XT and Malstrom are two of the best software noise-makers in the biz, even better than a lot of VST units. As for learning the basics, Subtractor is pretty invincible too. Reason is actually perfect for learning the basics on, because you're restricted to what it comes with, which forces you to dabble with it more to stay original. Stick with it.

yes! cant reccomend reason enough to learn the basics on. really really great way to do it.

i use preset sounds all the time,
on my acoustic guitar, electric guitar, electric bass guitar, fender rodes emulation, b3 emulation and loads of other acoustic instruments.

In fact, pretty much all the vocalists I know, use preset sounds when singing.

Now, joking aside.
One of my favorite dance artists, "chicane" admits to using preset sounds.
In fact, if you listen to his music, you can pick out the Roland JV1080 presets by listening.

The music is still well put together, and some of his tracks are still in my all time favorite dance tunes to date.

The end result makes me happy, then, who cares what he used.
However, i find inventiveness interesting too.
Check out Tom Waits, and the things he uses to make his music.

Not much synthesizers in his studio, I can tell you.
But, some of his music is literally fascinating and definitely unique.

Hey, do what makes you happy.

yep i use loads of presets

every single sound is a preset, except the sub and sometimes a basic sine/sq synth or rhodes in massive

i usually change them quite alot to make them fit, but if they dont need changing ill leave them in there as standard

Hardly, if ever. 90% of the fun in production comes from messing around with synths and experimenting with stuff for me. I sometimes re-use my own patches though.

I never use presets as presets. As many have said, I will occassionally start with a preset sound and experiment with it to get different sounds and what not. Adjust oscillator waveforms adjust attack, release, etc.

However, as the years have gone by I start almost everything from scratch. I have a saved ES2 file with everything off that I load up and start molding the sound(btw, the ES2 is such a bad ass synth. I find something. I do have a library of my own patches that you could consider presets though that I will use a base for a patch. But, it's mine, so it's special ( ).

Nothing like making a dope tune and someone picking out the preset you used. Sure, if it's a good tune, it's a good tune, but you can understand where I'm getting at.

I will say that you can learn a shitload from disecting a synth patch you really like. Find out what does what and when you start building your own patches, you will be able to apply what you learned. That's how I learned how to make good pads.

I will admit that I do, once in a blue moon, through a straight preset on with only simple cutoff/resonance automation. Fuck it.

I use presets for effects a lot in albino 3 and the odd pad but i mostly make my own pads and always make my own bass.

I never use any synth or bass presets unless they're in Massive. Even then i tend to tweak them a bit to make a unique sound from it.
I use Presets for FX or Textures a lot of the time though.

Whineo wrote:I deconstruct them

win.

All about finding a nice preset, then working out how they did it!

i really never use presets.