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paperclip

Parson wrote:
blackwater recently got a billion dollar contract to expand operations domestically

Yea they even have an air force they are building for Domestic use.

http://www.declineandfall.net/2007/08/c ... r-air.html

SamSupa wrote:

Parson wrote:
blackwater recently got a billion dollar contract to expand operations domestically

Yea they even have an air force they are building for Domestic use.

http://www.declineandfall.net/2007/08/c ... r-air.html

pay attention people. this is the shit the elections are distracting you from.

Dubsworth wrote:I have recently seen an amazing wave of support develop for Barack Obama among the dubstep scene and felt the need to speak up on my questions about the candidate. I'll state for the record that I used say I was 100% democrat. However, all that has happened politically in the last 7 years has forced me to not claim allegiance to one particular party. I'm writing this to encourage deep skepticism towards anyone attempting to take powerful positions in government.


Why did Barack Obama vote for and why does he continue to support the Military Commissions Act?
--just in case you missed it, the Military Commissions Act not only legalizes torture, secret detentions and executions, and removal of U.S. citizenship for anyone defined as an enemy combatant. It also gives the president and secretary of defense sole power to define any person these leaders should choose as an enemy combatant as well as to power to define and re-define the term enemy combatant. The definition of enemy combatant is now even looser than the definition of domestic terrorism in the Patriot Act (which Obama also voted for).

Why will Obama not specifically denounce an attack on Iran?
--Obama has left his position on attacking Iran wide open. So has Hillary and McCain. The notion of attacking yet another nation, especially one which will have Russian support would be extremely dangerous to everyone in the world and would of course continue to cripple the country even further than it already is.

These questions combined with a number of Obama's votes of support in regards to the Iraq war as well as helping vote in people like Robert Gates have forced me to not lend my support to Obama or any candidate who is being vague of such important issues which relate to all of our personal safety. I do not claim to have read everything Obama has said in regards to the issues I have mentioned. If he has become more clear on his war positions or has begun denouncing some of the things I mentioned, I am open to correction of course.
Unfortunately the left wing of this country have been dooped into voting for pro-war, pro-imperialist schills for to long. I voted for Kerry but I was telling people that it was probably going to be a sham election and Kerry would probably help out his frat brother steal the election again, which Kerry indeed ended up doing. And look what happened when everyone voted in the dem's to congress a few years back. Nancy Pelosi along with a couple of other democrats who were leading the impeachment charge immediately denounced impeachment and months later Pelosi removed a clause from an Iraq spending bill which prevented the president from using the money to attack Iran without congressional approval.
Forcing Americans to choose between the lesser of two evils has unfortunately led the country into a collapsing economy and a nation that looks and smells just like fascism. If there is not serious scrutiny of an equal standard for ALL candidates on both the left and the right, history has shown that we will see more war, terror, and tyranny coming from our own leaders in government.

Peace

i had a big long reply to this, and i will still post it, but first i wanted to ask this question:

does obama scare you more than the bush regime? mccain (who has sold his soul willingly to the bush regime)?

a private standing army not answerable to the people whatsover is something to be shitting your pants about.

sapphic_beats wrote: i had a big long reply to this, and i will still post it, but first i wanted to ask this question:

does obama scare you more than the bush regime? mccain (who has sold his soul willingly to the bush regime)?

its the same regime. look closer.

Parson wrote:wernher von braun was not a n.azi. don't lump him in with them.

he was a major in the S.S. hitler's fan club. The guy was a genius, don't get me wrong. He just rooted for team Braun.

Dennis would not be a very good neocon

sapphic_beats wrote:

Dubsworth wrote:I have recently seen an amazing wave of support develop for Barack Obama among the dubstep scene and felt the need to speak up on my questions about the candidate. I'll state for the record that I used say I was 100% democrat. However, all that has happened politically in the last 7 years has forced me to not claim allegiance to one particular party. I'm writing this to encourage deep skepticism towards anyone attempting to take powerful positions in government.


Why did Barack Obama vote for and why does he continue to support the Military Commissions Act?
--just in case you missed it, the Military Commissions Act not only legalizes torture, secret detentions and executions, and removal of U.S. citizenship for anyone defined as an enemy combatant. It also gives the president and secretary of defense sole power to define any person these leaders should choose as an enemy combatant as well as to power to define and re-define the term enemy combatant. The definition of enemy combatant is now even looser than the definition of domestic terrorism in the Patriot Act (which Obama also voted for).

Why will Obama not specifically denounce an attack on Iran?
--Obama has left his position on attacking Iran wide open. So has Hillary and McCain. The notion of attacking yet another nation, especially one which will have Russian support would be extremely dangerous to everyone in the world and would of course continue to cripple the country even further than it already is.

These questions combined with a number of Obama's votes of support in regards to the Iraq war as well as helping vote in people like Robert Gates have forced me to not lend my support to Obama or any candidate who is being vague of such important issues which relate to all of our personal safety. I do not claim to have read everything Obama has said in regards to the issues I have mentioned. If he has become more clear on his war positions or has begun denouncing some of the things I mentioned, I am open to correction of course.
Unfortunately the left wing of this country have been dooped into voting for pro-war, pro-imperialist schills for to long. I voted for Kerry but I was telling people that it was probably going to be a sham election and Kerry would probably help out his frat brother steal the election again, which Kerry indeed ended up doing. And look what happened when everyone voted in the dem's to congress a few years back. Nancy Pelosi along with a couple of other democrats who were leading the impeachment charge immediately denounced impeachment and months later Pelosi removed a clause from an Iraq spending bill which prevented the president from using the money to attack Iran without congressional approval.
Forcing Americans to choose between the lesser of two evils has unfortunately led the country into a collapsing economy and a nation that looks and smells just like fascism. If there is not serious scrutiny of an equal standard for ALL candidates on both the left and the right, history has shown that we will see more war, terror, and tyranny coming from our own leaders in government.

Peace

i had a big long reply to this, and i will still post it, but first i wanted to ask this question:

does obama scare you more than the bush regime? mccain (who has sold his soul willingly to the bush regime)?

I did not title this discussion the way I did to talk about which candidate was more scary than the other. Yes of course I know that Bush and McCain are neo-con fascist mad men. However, if Obama thinks that we can handle a conflict in Iran and a continued policy in the ME like we have, as well as the domestic police state agenda which people here have begun to elaborate on (ie blackwater) he doesn't scare me THAT much less than Bush and McCain.

CursedC wrote:

Parson wrote:wernher von braun was not a n.azi. don't lump him in with them.

he was a major in the S.S. hitler's fan club. The guy was a genius, don't get me wrong. He just rooted for team Braun.

Dennis would not be a very good neocon

von braun was very anti fascism and anti imperialism. he predicted the war on terror. he predicted the cold war. he said they were going to be used to advance fascist agendas.

CursedC wrote:

Parson wrote:wernher von braun was not a n.azi. don't lump him in with them.

he was a major in the S.S. hitler's fan club. The guy was a genius, don't get me wrong. He just rooted for team Braun.

Dennis would not be a very good neocon

by saying team Braun, he wanted to further his work at any cost. sometimes you have to sleep with the devil to avoid being locked in hell.

Black mark is a black mark in anyones eyes.

he also warned about a phony alien threat that was going to follow the phony terrorist threat

Parson wrote:

CursedC wrote:

Parson wrote:wernher von braun was not a n.azi. don't lump him in with them.

he was a major in the S.S. hitler's fan club. The guy was a genius, don't get me wrong. He just rooted for team Braun.

Dennis would not be a very good neocon

von braun was very anti fascism and anti imperialism. he predicted the war on terror. he predicted the cold war. he said they were going to be used to advance fascist agendas.

A Terrible vision a head. Just like the gents that created the Manhattan Project. I believe they knew the horror that they created. Weapons of that kind in the hands of madmen.

someone would have invented it...only a matter of time.

CursedC wrote:

CursedC wrote:

Parson wrote:wernher von braun was not a n.azi. don't lump him in with them.

he was a major in the S.S. hitler's fan club. The guy was a genius, don't get me wrong. He just rooted for team Braun.

Dennis would not be a very good neocon

by saying team Braun, he wanted to further his work at any cost. sometimes you have to sleep with the devil to avoid being locked in hell.

Black mark is a black mark in anyones eyes.

one day americans will be looked at the same way n.azis are today. people who were members of the republican and democratic parties will seem to be just as guilty as the leaders they supported. it doesn't make them bad people.

Parson wrote:

CursedC wrote:

CursedC wrote:

Parson wrote:wernher von braun was not a n.azi. don't lump him in with them.

he was a major in the S.S. hitler's fan club. The guy was a genius, don't get me wrong. He just rooted for team Braun.

Dennis would not be a very good neocon

by saying team Braun, he wanted to further his work at any cost. sometimes you have to sleep with the devil to avoid being locked in hell.

Black mark is a black mark in anyones eyes.

one day americans will be looked at the same way n.azis are today. people who were members of the republican and democratic parties will seem to be just as guilty as the leaders they supported. it doesn't make them bad people.

Even if 1/3 of the population was against it, the history books (depends on the victor that writes them) will view us in a very negative light like the pre WWII germans are looked under. If there is anyone around to read them of course. I feel bad for america's future and the poor choices that we are going to see being made by the powers that be.

Braun wasn't a horrible human being, he was just trying to further his agenda of science. He let himself be used because he knew it was the only way let his projects be created. I suppose you could argue that if he really cared for the human race that he would have not created the V-2 rocket at all.....but as a I said before, someone would have created it in his stead.

he was just a brilliant scientist in germany. impossible to exist without being used by the government.

thats how it is in america right now too.

ok, so this is my longer reply. let me disclose first off that i am, at heart, an anarchist. i also live in this country and have to deal with the fallout from the government's policies (unemployed, no insurance and my teeth are currently rotting out of my head, if you wanna know the nitty gritty here). so while i think the whole concept of representative governance is pretty fucked, it's also what we have...right now. so i have to deal with it on those terms.

a lot of people talk about their frustration with the "lesser of two evils" thing, and i am just as frustrated with it. but my pragmatic self says, well...that's what we have to deal with, and no amount of being mad at that is gonna change it. action is what makes change happen. so then the obvious question at that point is: how can we make change happen?

elections are only one way to affect things, and in this case, i do believe that the lesser of two evils is the choice we have to make. we don't have the luxury of debating the finer points of that concept right now. we need this administration and it's cronies OUT. NOW. because, as an activist who has been active for decades, this administration has done so much to decimate the better things that have come out of community activism. i have always believed that it was people that really made change happen, and i still do. but this administration and their cronies have done more to crack the spirit and the power of the people of this country than any i have ever seen (and i lived through the reagan era). they have made massive strides in reversing the hard-won gains for women, poor people, working people, people of color, gay people, the planet in general...you name it. reversing civil liberties, the wars, the bullshit lies and corruption...i could make a list but you already know. and usually my response is to get out and get active, and after 8 years of this i have watched the people's good work disrupted, dismantled and sabotaged on every level.

so as someone who has always been on the ground doing the work...who believes in that concept as a way to take back power...well...i am fucking worn out and battered and i want these right wing fucking fascists out. now.

now on to obama. do i believe he is a frickin savior? hell no. no politician will EVER be that. do i believe he has his faults? absofuckinglutely. i take issue with his hinkiness on iran, his attitude toward israel and palestine (he toed the line and chalked the problems up to islamic extremists in palestine, which is so fucking far from a nuanced understanding of the issue), his touting nuclear power as an answer to our energy/pollution issues, his unwillingness to realize that calling it a "civil union" for gay people still comes down to "separate but equal" status (and that worked REALLY well for people of color, right?) and his inability to see that religious concepts of marriage have no place in the civil institution itself...i could go on.

i am never gonna agree with everything a politician stands for...i can't even agree with the fact of their existence. but...we have what we have...and i have to deal with it.

the fact is, i DO believe that the work i do (grassroots organizing and community building) will be difficult no matter who is in charge (cuz let's face it, the corporations are in charge on so many levels), but i believe we can actually begin to make some gains back once bushco. is gone. it will be a long process, and it will never be perfect. ever. as long as the money is so inextricably linked with power (and as long as capitalism is really the default political system here), people will always come second.

but i will take a guy who doesn't take special interest money over the rest of them any day. hillary is too in bed with special interests and too willing to calculate herself right into a corner for me to be able to support her. and mccain is just a dottering fucking fool whose strings are being pulled by the guys in charge.

i would rather have a guy in the office who has done grassroots organizing, who at least has a modicum of understanding of the lives and interests and POWER of the people living in the country he wants to "lead".

we have a lot of things going down right now...things that are unimaginably fucked up and corrupt and teetering on the precipice of utter fascism. at this point the things this administration has done open our entire country up to tyranny from future sources, and i DO believe anyone could be a tyrant. but it's easier to find a tyrant in someone who has ties to people who can pull his or her strings, and while i don't think ANYONE is squeaky clean, obama has distanced himself from the special interests and relied on grassroots organizing on the ground, instead of money and favors from the big dogs. from a practical standpoint, i trust him more than i trust the rest of the fuckers (which still isn't much, admittedly).

i also believe that obama has the ability to look at things from a much more intelligent and nuanced standpoint than that utter fucking MORON we have now. and as much as i think our whole system is fucked up, i want someone in there who can at least intellectually understand the shades of gray instead of "you're either with us or against us".

look, none of this is ideal. none of it. the whole system is a fucking trainwreck. but right now it's sink or swim. i am making my choices based on how i think we can at least begin to tread water again...simple as that.

Parson wrote:he also warned about a phony alien threat that was going to follow the phony terrorist threat

I think I read somewhere that the U.S. government was planning for an alien/communist russia attack in the 1960s. Sound pretty ridiculous, but I'm sure that they were.........


The phony terrorist threat is quite real. Fabricated by our own government and other governments. A real Fake Terrorist threat. Osama isn't hiding in a cave, he's right there in the White House.

This thread should make for some good dubstep inspired tune. Thats just me.

¬_¬

Parson wrote:

LOL.