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Completely agree ddddddddddddddddddddddddddd.

I don't think 'a tnuc' is the right description..I've always taken the piss, but am probably more selective these days as I have learnt that some people can't take it.

I'm a fairly optmistic person and generally avoid confrontation and bitching etc. If I don't like you, generally I'll try to avoid you as it's not worth it.

I was probably more of a tnuc at school, but various things happened which changed that.

Shonky wrote:

dr ddd wrote:cynicism FTW! I find my life a lot more amusing with it...

but i would ask shonkle's opinions on this as he clearly has the most experience here

Cynicism's fucking shit to be honest, no finer way to take the joy out of existence - think it's default mode given the lack of a shit most people give about anything, being constantly marketed at and bullshitted by vested interests and seeing mediocrity celebrated in order to sell even more pointlessness to the gullible twats of society.

Nothing more dreary than thinking that the be-all and end-all of civilisation is that knowing winks and no emotional involvement in anything by post-ironic people who don't trust or believe in anything and think they know it all is now seen as the pinnacle of detachment. Shit state of affairs I think.

Shonky wrote:

metalboxproducts wrote:

Shonky wrote:

dr ddd wrote:cynicism FTW! I find my life a lot more amusing with it...

but i would ask shonkle's opinions on this as he clearly has the most experience here

Cynicism's fucking shit to be honest, no finer way to take the joy out of existence - think it's default mode given the lack of a shit most people give about anything, being constantly marketed at and bullshitted by vested interests and seeing mediocrity celebrated in order to sell even more pointlessness to the gullible twats of society.

Nothing more dreary than thinking that the be-all and end-all of civilisation is that knowing winks and no emotional involvement in anything by post-ironic people who don't trust or believe in anything and think they know it all is now seen as the pinnacle of detachment. Shit state of affairs I think.

Yeah, when the fuck did a tissue thin vail of irony become something that should be aspired to or even considered cool?

Last resort for the emotionally gutless isn't it, why bother having any involvement with anything when you can just tear strips off it from a distance. There is enough stuff that genuinely deserves contempt in this world, not being able to filter out that which is good and just damning everything is not healthy for the individual or for society.

shonky killin it in this thread

dr ddd wrote: I've found that putting anything under too much scrutiny will inevitably lead to exposing flaws, whether or not this becomes a mantra is the individual's decision and their right. However, dwelling on things and living too negatively invariably leads to dissatisfaction, which can become a habit. At which point, I'd say either change the direction of one's life or try a reprogram on how one approaches it

I don't think it's a decision as such, if it was we wouldn't have so many people on prozac. Also, a lot of the things that may change a life around might result in further exposure to the things that were making you negative in the first place thus compounding it. Plus there's also the fact that a lot of people do have various shit to endure in their world that taint the way they view things, may lack the ability to sublimate their discontent to those that might employ or promote them or just be square pegs in round holes who are just never going to fit right.

dr ddd wrote: Maybe I sound a bit of a hippy here, but I do believe individual's have their own responsibility for their lives and it's often too much of a temptation to put the onus on the world around them.

No you sound like a Thatcherite

the book i have is slightly different:

the supreme good is like water,
which nourishes all things without trying to.
it is content with the low places that people disdain.
thus it is like the tao

in dwelling, live close to the ground
in thinking, keep to the simple.
in conflict, be fair and generous.
in governing, don't try to control.
in work, do what you enjoy.
in family life, be completely present.

when you are content to be simply yourself
and don't compare or compete,
everybody will respect you.

Shonky wrote:

dr ddd wrote: I've found that putting anything under too much scrutiny will inevitably lead to exposing flaws, whether or not this becomes a mantra is the individual's decision and their right. However, dwelling on things and living too negatively invariably leads to dissatisfaction, which can become a habit. At which point, I'd say either change the direction of one's life or try a reprogram on how one approaches it

I don't think it's a decision as such, if it was we wouldn't have so many people on prozac. Also, a lot of the things that may change a life around might result in further exposure to the things that were making you negative in the first place thus compounding it. Plus there's also the fact that a lot of people do have various shit to endure in their world that taint the way they view things, may lack the ability to sublimate their discontent to those that might employ or promote them or just be square pegs in round holes who are just never going to fit right.

Oh, I agree, but this thread was more geared towards becoming more of a "tnuc" through life, presumably due to attitude, experience or age. This is more a discussion of what I've experienced and certainly does not cover whether someone may be clinically depressed or go through specific situations that may tip them in a particular direction. Such cases are (arguably) a state of mental balance that is independent of your age.
I know a lot of people that have been through very tough situations and manage to still stay positive and not let it grind them down, and a lot who haven't. I'm not saying life is easy, but someone with a fairly balanced approach to life does have control over how they perceive the world around them (or the decision as to whether they have the control). The point I was making is that to a certain extent, we do have a choice as to how positively or negatively we choose to approach hurdles in life and if we chose to take the negative path or plump our egos by demeaning others, the habit of doing this could exaccerbate feeling generally shit. I wasn't including people who maybe need more support to acheive being in this sort of position, where they even have a choice.

I would also hate to think people are going around thinking they should be a round peg to fit in a hole determined by mass society, as this perpetuates support of the sugar coated notions.

dr ddd wrote: I would also hate to think people are going around thinking they should be a round peg to fit in a hole determined by mass society, as this perpetuates support of the sugar coated notions.

I was more saying that some people will never fit into that hole, and I agree that I don't think anyone should have to. Unfortunately with everything becoming more dependent on money in this country and elsewhere, more people will have to bite the bullet and move into something they dislike in order to not live in poverty. There's only so much space in the world for those lucky enough to end up doing something they enjoy, everyone else is making bucks for the rich with a few little rewards thrown in to stop them slipping under or revolting.

Any discontent then gets filtered through the spin doctors so say, requesting tax justice is seen as "the politics of envy", asking for fair wages can be seen as making a company "uncompetetive", redundancies as "efficiency drives", etc. So by then showing any negativity to things that completely deserve it makes any protestor just seem like a moaner rather than someone with a valid criticism.

In all honesty, I find the people that can fit into that world far stranger than those excluded from it.

Shonky wrote: In all honesty, I find the people that can fit into that world far stranger than those excluded from it.

I come to the conclusion that transgression is always better than clinging to order.

I've been living in false order for too long, trying to fit in a place I simply don't. I don't blame anyone, but myself - got stuck on my own wish and had not enough courage to admit this early enough. There is something masochistic about hurting yourself out of concern to not hurt other people. Time of transgression for me now. First time on my own, I actually feel excited.

(Sorry for too much of personal info and off-topic, blame my English )

ch3 wrote:There is something masochistic about hurting yourself out of concern to not hurt other people.

I don't think that's a bad thing at all to be honest, as long as it's not a constant state of affairs and you're not looking to martyrdom. Compassion is a good quality ya know

transgression is great!

c'mon in. the water is fine.

Shonky wrote:In all honesty, I find the people that can fit into that world far stranger than those excluded from it.

Lol, seriously??!

datura wrote:

Shonky wrote:In all honesty, I find the people that can fit into that world far stranger than those excluded from it.

Lol, seriously??!

i'm w/ shonx on that one.

we're expected to accept and fit in to a completely unnatural world

datura wrote:

Shonky wrote:In all honesty, I find the people that can fit into that world far stranger than those excluded from it.

Lol, seriously??!

Yeah. There's very little natural to todays work world, the people that can repress their personalities to do well within it are quite odd to my mind.

Then again my mind's quite odd to most everyone elses so it's entirely subjective.

Parson on buttons with my thoughts before me


Shpookeh

Shonky wrote:

datura wrote:

Shonky wrote:In all honesty, I find the people that can fit into that world far stranger than those excluded from it.

Lol, seriously??!

Yeah. There's very little natural to todays work world, the people that can repress their personalities to do well within it are quite odd to my mind.

Then again my mind's quite odd to most everyone elses so it's entirely subjective.

I'm not sure that's entirely accurate, it may not strictly be the old 'hunter/gatherer' lifestyle of old, you can still apply a lot of those charachteristics to modern work environments where the strongest and fittest succeed.

Shonky wrote:as long as it's not a constant state of affairs

This.

datura wrote:

Shonky wrote:

datura wrote:

Shonky wrote:In all honesty, I find the people that can fit into that world far stranger than those excluded from it.

Lol, seriously??!

Yeah. There's very little natural to todays work world, the people that can repress their personalities to do well within it are quite odd to my mind.

Then again my mind's quite odd to most everyone elses so it's entirely subjective.

I'm not sure that's entirely accurate, it may not strictly be the old 'hunter/gatherer' lifestyle of old, you can still apply a lot of those charachteristics to modern work environments where the strongest and fittest succeed.

Strongest and fittest are not the words I'd have used. Not even smarter most of the time.

Shonky wrote:

datura wrote:

Shonky wrote:In all honesty, I find the people that can fit into that world far stranger than those excluded from it.

Lol, seriously??!

Yeah. There's very little natural to todays work world, the people that can repress their personalities to do well within it are quite odd to my mind.

Then again my mind's quite odd to most everyone elses so it's entirely subjective.

Yeah, i think it's a sweeping generalisation to say that all people who "fit" into the world are compromising themselves or their personalities to do so. Even that what they are doing is fitting in. It's always going to be down to the individual and their outlook. I've never changed my attitude or behaviour to fit in with e.g. work etc, but some people do - and that's what's more important to them and is their choice.