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spender wrote: People's expectations, or what you may perceive as unrealistically high standards are only so due to the quantity of forward thinking music that this scene (for want of a better phrase) has generated in a relatively short space of time.

exactly. many of us have seen the road that 2003-2008 DNB has gone, and its not exactly inspiring. It's like one big competition for the biggest drop. there's nothing wrong with big drops by the way, it's just that this music originally didn't have big drops on the radar. it was about vibes.

spender wrote:

dTruk wrote:measure tunes only against themselves and not any other factors and you've removed the 'conneuseur-esque' vibe alot of steppers seem to have adopted.

So would you honestly prefer people accept and embrace mediocrity then? Just a question.

It's not about snobbery. Just keeping the standards high.

no doubt--not what i meant completely. im extremely 'fussy' when it comes to music also.

if i hear something i dont like i just wont listen to it again. plain and simple. wont devote any extra time in telling other people why i dont like it cos its all subjective.

obviously its not great when you start noticing a decline in the 'vibes' but the whole 'chip on the shoulder' thing gets a bit much to hear sometimes. things never seen to be as good as they were 'back in the day'.

we all know how diverse the scene is. same goes for dnb. if you find yourself commenting on how bad/generic things have gotten then your not paying enough attention to the good/innovative stuff that is still out there but just a bit harder to find.

i know this is a place for expressing opinions 'and what not' but i dunno....it just seems as if the critisism of 'bad' music is outweighing the praise of 'good' music...

think the tendancy in dubstep is to set the standards of what is 'acceptable' way higher than whats usually possible. genres have to have a certain level of copy cats for the foundation to be built. if everyone was doing something completely different then it wouldnt be a genre.
things dont even seem to be getting a chance if theyre not already at a certain height. like the 'you have to be this tall to ride' signs next to rollercoaster rides. people are creating the 'height' restrictions way beyond even their own reach cos people tend to be comparing 'this' dubstep to 'that' dubstep.

measure tunes only against themselves and not any other factors and you've removed the 'conneuseur-esque' vibe alot of steppers seem to have adopted.

A point well made.

By the way, I sometimes think people place too much emphasis on a kind of evolution.

For me, it is often tracks that are in many ways highly unoriginal which end up among my favourites. I might hear a track for instance that has a familiar feel or groove to it, may not feel particularly original, but somehow leave its mark on me, and just stand out as a good track .

To make tracks that tread the same path (be it rhythmically, in terms of sounds used, or whatever) as many others, but make something brilliant within that can be more impressive than making a more original track.

Seckle, I see your point about drops in drum & bass, but I think you've got your years wrong. I think there was a lot of emphasis on the drop a few years before you put, and if anything the drum & bass I'm hearing recently (and I'm talking about a fair spread of producers) is moving away slightly from the drop-focussed mentality.

fair play BSE good tunage

i find both of them tunes really good but annoying in some way i cant put my finger on...
with just the slightest rework i think they could both be sick.

Why the hate? Sounds like 95% of releases that come out on wax and that people seem to love and praise in this forum.. but with better production.

seckle wrote:

spender wrote: People's expectations, or what you may perceive as unrealistically high standards are only so due to the quantity of forward thinking music that this scene (for want of a better phrase) has generated in a relatively short space of time.

exactly. many of us have seen the road that 2003-2008 DNB has gone, and its not exactly inspiring. It's like one big competition for the biggest drop. there's nothing wrong with big drops by the way, it's just that this music originally didn't have big drops on the radar. it was about vibes.

Blackdown wrote:Here’s the thing right: if you want someone to rip the arse off it from the get go, go see someone else. Our thinking is twofold. Firstly, without the mellow, there’s no hard. Without the gentle, there’s no hectic. Without the quiet there’s no rowdy. Our sets build, because we don’t want to end up in some harder/faster contest that’ll lead dubstep into some 150bpm, zone-of-fruitless intensification (© Simon Reynolds) tear-out-competition that deadout genres like d&b now find themselves in.

if you just skimmed that, read it again.

Synth design was sick in Cold Crysis, but that riddim was rigid as and boring as! Shame! I'm a fan of BSE's stuff.

theonelikepaul wrote: The cookie cutter has been set, so what, lets keep cutting cookies and raving.

Let Them Eat Cookie.

dreamizm wrote:

theonelikepaul wrote: The cookie cutter has been set, so what, lets keep cutting cookies and raving.

Let Them Eat Cookie.

Having thought about that statement longer, I take it back....

Yeah but imagine a rave full of

oh noes the drum & bass boys ruined my scene with their lack of knowledge of early dark garage and their synth-centricity....


music first, people.

seckle wrote: that this music originally didn't have big drops on the radar. it was about vibes.

seckle wrote: this music originally didn't have big drops on the radar. it was about vibes.

aphrodite & mickey finn were doin big drops since day but that is and always has been jump-up. now almost every dnb rave is purely jump-up (with a bit of caspa & rusko thrown in for good measure) so i feel like i have an obligation to support and promote nights and producers who bring the actual 'vibes' you speak of, rather than formula-based jump-up.

p.s. central beatz present nocturnal (hardware) in leeds tomorrow night!

i like both tunes... would both get played out and surely would be received well from the crowd. even if they're not so innovative. big up bse...

sounds a bit generic in the first tune on the page... not at all like Black Sun Empire would be expected to sound. The second tune has some promise but not really entirely my style. Nice bass, was listening on a moderately week system and could still feel some kick. Not enough on the actual kick though. Doesn't sound finished imo.

I like the DnB stuff, but not sure I dig the dubstep attempt to the fullest. I wonder if they've been mastered for pressing yet?

I think they're pretty sweet traks, I love there DnB stuff and they most likely just started making dubstep so they are probaly just experimanting. they have alot of potenial to make some crazy good dubstep.

oh yeah by the way if anyone wants to check a bit of cutting-edge dnb (with vibes) and a sprinkling of BSE-style dubstep from the dons themselves:



(shameless plug shameless plug shameless plug shameless plug)

wobbler. wrote:It's great to see dnb artists...producing dubstep now! Nothing I like more than dnb influenced dubstep!!

im loving the dubstep mixes of kryptic minds & leon switch's 'minor nine'

i noticed bse signed in here a couple of weeks ago, def one of my fave dnb acts

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