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kidlogic wrote:What if Jazz musicians felt similar? Meaning, what if say, Miles Davis just gave up on the trumpet because it sounded too much like every other trumpet player's trumpet? Dont come back at me with a "but Miles sounded very different to other trumpet players..." because thats my point. He did. But in a sense, he was using the same "preset" as everyone else.

He didn't even write his own tunes some of the time. How uncreative can you get?

But seriously, what's important to me is making something as exciting and original and fun and emotional and ruff and mindbending as possible (which at the moment is not very, but then I don't actually use any loops / many presets either) and if you use a loop or a preset to acheive that then use it. If using a loop or a preset makes your tune boring and predictable then don't use it. Anything else just seems like making up arbitrary rules as ego-fuel to me, the electronic equivalent of those guitar nerds who think you aren't a proper guitarist unless you can shred like Steve Vai.

To be honest, even having to have this argument depresses me a bit, because it reminds me that the scene is getting less about excitement and enjoyment and fresh sounds and more about muso chin stroking about what is the philosophically justifiable way of producing said sounds.

^^^^^ This right here.

Rynke wrote:"if it sounds good, why dont you just use it?" i couldnt agree less. I dont care what "big" producers do... I still think its pretty god damn weak to use some preset or loop that came with your DAW / Vst... Yes, maybe most acoustic guitars or any non-virtual-instrument have the same "preset", but it takes time to learn how to play the guitar, it doesnt take time to make up some melody in the paino roll. Like you have to learn how to play a guitar or piano or the drums or what ever in "real life", it takes time to learn how to make your own sounds on a computer. Talking about not being "original", its no where near original to use a preset or loop. (not talking bout sampled breaks here) For example, i'm currently working on this chilled out track, and yesterday i made a melody that would fit the track perfectly if it was played on an organ... I could have used the "dusty old organ" preset from Massive, but instead i made up my own organ patch, just by trying (took some time, but it was well worth it when i was done!) I actually thought most producers did this, but i guess i was wrong?

It is easy to plunk out a melody on a piano roll track in midi... just as easy as it is to pluck a few strings on a guitar, sample that and use it as your melody. You dont have to know how to play guitar to get notes out of it, which is esentially what you're doing if you just draw out a melody line with no knowledge of how to play the keyboard.

My point is that if you can write a good melody, its a good melody, weather its with the midi engine from a NES, a guitar or a preset on a synth.

Im not saying that we should all abandon sound design, but if you want an organ sound, and you have an organ sound preset, why build it from scratch when you could just tweek it with effects? If thats your thing, then thats your thing, but there's no reason to look down on someone for not wanting to spend the hours and hours re-inventing the wheel when I already have four of em on my skateboard. Me, Id rather be skating than building a skateboard.

And really, whats the difference between a loop and a sampled break? Just because something's old its better?

Rynke wrote:

zgomot wrote:

Rynke wrote:"if it sounds good, why dont you just use it?" i couldnt agree less. I dont care what "big" producers do... I still think its pretty god damn weak to use some preset or loop ... For example, i'm currently working on this chilled out track, and yesterday i made a melody that would fit the track perfectly if it was played on an organ... I could have used the "dusty old organ" preset from Massive, but instead i made up my own organ patch, just by trying (took some time, but it was well worth it when i was done!) I actually thought most producers did this, but i guess i was wrong?

No offense, but

zgomot wrote:... sounds to me like pretentious wank...

hehe, yeah i know But it was really the best example i could think of. I just cant help getting pissed off about peoples attitude "its alright i didnt make half my track - but hey it sounds good". As i said earlier... Its E-Jay business if you ask me...

Call my tunes E-Jay shit if you want. I really dont care. I built parts of them from scratch, used presets, samples, effects, loops, single hits, synths, etc. Tell me which is which and why it sucks that its not built from two sine waves and an lfo (and which parts actually were ).

nowaysj wrote: But my q remains, if the loop is so good, why didn't the dood that made the loop make a song?

forgot about this thread

Becasue hes being paid to make a sample pack? and or chooses to make his living from making loops? He has a spare loop from another tune? Maybe the loop is just a recorded drummer?

I just wish I could find samples that I could use in these sample packs. Everything is processed into some smashed hat bullshit. I want source material not a finished product. And not having stupid effects that make it impossible to chop the one good sound you find. I dont think it is lazy or cheating or whatever, I just think its gonna stop you finding your own sound as quickly as you could otherwise.

I can't remember the last time I used something which I didn't make from scratch myself (obviously ignoring kick or household samples etc)

Unless a song is a belter, if I knew it was produced using mildly processed samples/loops/hits etc, it would put me off majorly..

Having said that, I don't think I've ever heard a tune and known where the sounds have come from so essentially, it doesn't really bother me!

The only samples I use are individual drum hits (layered and processed myself), and the occasional riser/stab/whatever (also heavily processed). Never use presets or drum loops. I definitely see it as cheating. For me, a huge part of production is sound design. If you can't synthesize your own patches or arrange your own drum loops, you fail as a producer. (I know I'm not a very good producer myself, but at least I make a genuine effort to make my own original stuff instead of just downloading a Vengeance pack, kick on 1, snare on 3, fire up Massive, set it to Brutal Electro, done)

now wub i know u posted this thread in a very open-minded, philosophical manner and i appreciate that its a great debate ... but here's my take on the subject, and please.. everyone dont get offended

i simply think that using a blatant loop from a sample pack is way less of a lazy thing then to ask around for opinions on the rightfulness or wrongfulness of using it... what i mean is ... that making choices is a hard task, and that it takes a great deal of non-laziness to do so... u make choices everyday, once u make one like that assume it... or dont do it... then the rest is mostly just pointless jivin'

I'm more satisfied when I make an okay tune that I now I did great production on than when I make a great tune knowing it's just a looped sample with some drums. I don't think it's only about the end result

wub wrote:The other side is that it's not about the source material, it's about what you do with it that counts - a shit hot producer can make a shit hot tune using presets, just as being an amazing sound designer doesn't mean you know how to throw a beat together.

i agree totally! to be fair i work hard on sound design & i think i spend more time on that than anything. i really feel my main weakness is bein melodic. i can get it right sometimes but heck i take forever to do this! this makes me think.. i should spend more time on piano melodies etc.
nice to hear something very true and helpful!

Depends on the loop/sample.

Risers, for example, are I'd say quite advanced piece of synthesis for a beginner,so, and in my opinion it's acceptable til they learn-to use a sample pack riser is ok, as long as there's a willingness to recreate that sound themselves.

i still cant program a single riser patch that doesnt sound aweful

help???

get a nice waveform going.. then automate the pitch over 8 bars? helps if you have an exponential kinda curve rather than linear. idk risers i always found easy. add some chorus, reverb, and delay and bam. i think it must be all those years i spent just nerding out on synths making weird sounds while i was bored that helps me with things like this.

@Ldizzy try automating the way the waveform sounds as it goes up. Like, for example, Ring modulate it and have the modulator decrease in pitch as the carrier increases. Just try random crap like that. Maybe granulize/timestretch a sample and raise the pitch over the appropriate amount of time.

I think this whole debate doesn't really make sense outside of a whole forum populated by people who love everything about producing music.

I understand the whole "i produce for me, cause i like it" thing, but don't most of us hope someday that enough people will like your tunes for you to play out, and have releases and all that? its crazy how many limits we place on ourselves because of some weird production ethics we think extends past places like this.

i think that there is more to music than the exact science as to how it was produced. I'm positive that most listeners aren't going to be as intimately familiar with any commercial soundbank as we are. If you like your music, and other people like your music, i think the debate should end there.

bottom line is people who like your music don't really give a fuck how you made it unless they make music themselves. if you dont believe me, go to a party and find some girl who likes your tunes. then try and chat her up with additive and subtractive synthesis techniques and see what happens.

So, I have no close friends who produce electronic music so I have no one with opinions on this type of thing. So please tell me what you think!

So I've recently been thinking about using premade royalty free music loops versus creating your own sounds using FL studio. I recently realized that my absolutely best song I've ever made was with music loops; which struck me as strange since I've always admired producers who create their own sounds more. But this brought me to realize: maybe no matter what route you take to make it, music can only really be good if you are talented. If you take you time, pay attention to detail and editing and putting your own spin on things, whats the shame in using loops?

Any thoughts?

Punters don't care, other producers will laugh at you.

can't imagine myself ever using any loops other than breakbeats

building drum rhythms is definitely my favourite part of beatmaking

Why does it have to be an A versus B proposition?

clever spamming