Dubstepforum.com

dubunked wrote:
I mentioned the Bush era because of what dfaultzer was saying earlier about torture et al.

m8son wrote:lol are france a global superpower?

dubunked wrote:

ehbrums1 wrote:The Bush era has nothing to do with this. America has a long running tradition of doing shitty things to people under the false guise of "instituting democracy". The only dirty work going on is by the US government invading countries and overthrowing democratically elected officials. From what I'm reading it seems as if you want the US to be the new UN....

LOL so either you're a commie or you're a neocon according to dsf???? There's no inbetween? Want the US to be the new UN? I want a new UN to be the new US. In other words, a supra-national organization like the LoN or the UN that takes the US's role in global affairs.

Also, just cause a leader was democratically elected doesn't mean he lead democratically. If Hitler was democratically elected, does that mean we should never intervene and just let him commit whatever crimes he wants? Not to mention many alleged "democratic elections" are farces.

ehbrums1 wrote:

dubunked wrote:

ehbrums1 wrote:The Bush era has nothing to do with this. America has a long running tradition of doing shitty things to people under the false guise of "instituting democracy". The only dirty work going on is by the US government invading countries and overthrowing democratically elected officials. From what I'm reading it seems as if you want the US to be the new UN....

LOL so either you're a commie or you're a neocon according to dsf???? There's no inbetween? Want the US to be the new UN? I want a new UN to be the new US. In other words, a supra-national organization like the LoN or the UN that takes the US's role in global affairs.

So if you want the UN to be more like the US you want them to invade countries at will?? because thats been our foreign policy for the past few decades with regards to countries that don't bend their knee to us

Also, just cause a leader was democratically elected doesn't mean he lead democratically. If Hitler was democratically elected, does that mean we should never intervene and just let him commit whatever crimes he wants? Not to mention many alleged "democratic elections" are farces.

Iran, 1953
Guatemala, 1954
Congo, 1960
Dominican Republic, 1961
South Vietnam, 1963
Brazil, 1964
Chile, 1973
Nicaragua, 1979-1990's

dubunked wrote:What do you mean? like what shit would be solved? i didn't know the US wasn't subject to most international law, but they obviously break some of it. other countries do to though.

Furious Russia, Downgraded To Just Above Junk By S&P, Proposes "Scorched Earth" Retaliation Against NATO Countries

nowaysj wrote:Anyone speak Russian?

Exclusive: Putin Halts All Talks With White House

As new U.S. sanctions against Russia loom, the Kremlin has shut down—at least for now—intensive high level communications between top U.S. and Russian officials.

Since the invasion of Crimea, President Vladimir Putin and President Barack Obama have had regular phone calls in an often half-hearted attempt to deescalate the ongoing crisis inside Ukraine. But as the U.S. and EU prepare to unveil new sanctions against Russia, Putin has decided the interactions should stop. The Kremlin has ended high-level contact with the Obama administration, according to diplomatic officials and sources close to the Russian leadership. The move signals an end to the diplomacy, for now.

“Putin will not talk to Obama under pressure,” said Igor Yurgens, Chairman of the Institute for Contemporary Development, a prominent Moscow think tank, and a close associate of Russian Prime Minister Dmitry Medvedev. “It does not mean forever.”

Obama and Putin last spoke over the phone on April 14, a call that the White House said was initiated at Moscow’s request. Obama urged Putin in the call to end Kremlin support for armed, pro-Russian activists creating unrest in eastern Ukraine. Obama also warned that the U.S. would impose more “costs” on Russia if Putin continued his current course. According to the Kremlin’s readout of the call, Putin denied Russian interference in eastern Ukraine and said “that such speculations are based on inaccurate information.”

Obama and Putin have spoken to each other about Ukraine regularly over the past weeks, including calls on March 28, March 16, and March 6. But that these calls are now on hold for the indefinite future, due to their lack of progress and frustration on both sides.

On Friday, Kerry warned that new round of American financial assaults on Russia were on the way. “We are putting in more sanctions, they will probably come Monday at the latest,” he said in a private meeting in Washington, according to an attendee. Russian businesses and individuals close to Putin would be on the sanctions list, he added.

Diplomatic sources close to the process confirmed that Putin is not interested in speaking with Obama again in the current environment. The two leaders might talk again in the future but neither side is reaching out for direct interaction, as they had been doing since the Ukraine crisis began. The failure of the agreement struck last week in Geneva between the contact group of the U.S., EU, Russia, and Ukraine has made further direct Washington-Moscow interactions moot.

“‘We are putting in more sanctions, they will probably come Monday at the latest,’ Kerry said. Russian businesses and individuals close to Putin would be on the sanctions list, he added.”

Other top U.S. officials are also now out of direct contact with their Russian interlocutors. Defense Secretary Chuck Hagel is also getting the cold shoulder from his Russian counterpart Sergey Shoygu. Pentagon officials have reached out to Russia on Mr. Hagel’s behalf within the past 24 hours but have not gotten any response, according to Pentagon Spokesman Army Col. Steve Warren.

That leaves the channel between Secretary of State John Kerry and Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov as the only semi-functioning high-level diplomatic channel between Washington and Moscow. But even that often-frosty relationship has further chilled as the two sides hurled insults and accusations this week.

After speaking over the phone Monday and then again Tuesday about the now defunct Geneva agreement on Ukraine, Kerry and Lavrov are now conducting diplomacy through the press—and leveling harsh and undiplomatic charges against one another.

Kerry appeared at the State Department press room Thursday afternoon to declare publicly that Russia was not keeping its word.

“For seven days, Russia has refused to take a single concrete step in the right direction,” Kerry scolded. “Not a single Russian official, not one, has publicly gone on television in Ukraine and called on the separatists to support the Geneva agreement, to support the stand-down, to give up their weapons, and get out of the Ukrainian buildings. They have not called on them to engage in that activity. “

Kerry also lashed out at Russia Today, the Kremlin-sponsored television network, which Kerry said spends all its time “to propagandize and to distort what is happening or not happening in Ukraine.”

“Instead, in plain sight, Russia continues to fund, coordinate, and fuel a heavily armed separatist movement in Donetsk,” Kerry accused.

Lavrov publicly responded, “The U.S. is trying to pervert everything that is going on in Ukraine.”

On Friday, Kerry summed up his recent interactions with his Russian counterpart, “I’ve had 6 conversations with Lavrov in the last few weeks. The last one was Kafka-esque... It was bizarre.”

The people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same way in any country.

In the present confrontation between Russia and the West over the Ukrainian crisis, the image of the Cold War inevitably comes to mind and the media are obviously fond of it. However, contrary to what it gives us to understand, it’s not Russia that seeks the return of an iron curtain but really the US. An iron curtain separating the old powers and emerging nations; the world before and the world afterwards; debtors and creditors. And this in the crazy hope of preserving the American way of life and the US’ influence over “its” camp in the absence of being able to impose it on the whole world. In other words, go down with as many companions as possible to give the impression of not sinking.

For the US, these are the current stakes in fact: drag along the whole Western camp with them to be able to continue dominating and trading with enough countries. So, we are witnessing a formidable operation of turning round opinion and leaders in Europe to ensure docile and understanding rulers vis-à-vis the American boss, supported by a blitzkrieg to link them permanently with the TTIP and to cut them off from what could be their lifeline, namely the BRICS, their huge markets, their vibrant future, their link with developing countries, etc.

In 2008, before war broke out between Russia and Georgia, Dugin proclaimed: "Our troops will occupy the Georgian capital Tbilisi, the entire country, and perhaps even Ukraine and the Crimean Peninsula, which is historically part of Russia anyway.” Of course, Dugin’s vision has already partly become reality, but he doesn’t want the expansion to stop at Russia’s takeover of Crimea.

As a founder of Russia’s Eurasia Party—and, unsurprisingly, a leading advocate of Eurasianism—Dugin’s political outlook is one based around anti-liberalism, anti-Americanism, and a return to Russian imperialism. The Eurasianism ideology, developed among the Russian émigré community during the 1920s, regards Russia as having closer links to Asia than Europe or the rest of the West. Dugin wants to see the formation of a new Eurasian empire that will include every state from the former Soviet Union, as well as extending into other Asian countries.

Through the creation of this new global force, Dugin says, Russia would ultimately be at the helm of a new world pole, creating a superpower that would match America's influence. “It is very important to regard what is going on in Ukraine in this context,” he told me. “It is not Russians against Ukrainians—it is the defender of multi-polarity, in Putin and Moscow, against the ideas of uni-polarity, represented by America and the West.”

...

While Dugin argues that Eurasianism is an ideology that differs from the communism of the Soviet Union or the national socialism of Nazí Germany, he spent our conversation making me think otherwise. The ideologue, who is known for his proximity to fascism, believes that Russia is currently undergoing a “conservative revolution” that will see any liberal traits extinguished and a new ideologically-driven land emerge under Putin. This shift will deliver a centralized state where the Russian population will be under the ultimate control of the government and have many of their civil liberties removed, much like life during the rule of the Soviet Union.

As for the future of the people themselves, Dugin added: “I think that the new Russian identity and ideology will be constructed on the basis of people as the central political reality—not ethnic or racial, but the people as a community." By this, he means a society where individual freedoms are ignored and everything is organized for the glory of the state—effectively, a return to totalitarianism. This idea, he admits, is based upon the construction of the state under izan Germany.

Dugin also believes that this conservative revolution will coincide with a cultural revolution, one that will see the elimination of all liberal elements of Russian culture. He added that Putin is already implementing this transformation, pointing out that he focused on acquiring more power during the first half of his rule, until the point where he had minimized opposition as much as he could.

Now, Dugin claims, the president is becoming more ideologically motivated—the anti-gay laws he passed last summer coinciding perfectly with the notion of a conservative revolution. The jailing of three Pussy Riot members, his aggression in Crimea, and the arrest of Greenpeace activists at the Prirazlomnaya oil rig also highlight Putin’s efforts to stamp down his authority.

“I think that the changes will be very swift and very quick here, and in some years’ time I think Russia will be completely different from the one it is now,” Dugin told me.