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griffin took a team that hasn't been relevant for your whole life, and made them relevant with a roster slightly better than the replacements.

luck is leading a team that has had two bad seasons since 1998.

age-ist ^

the last time they were relevant, i was two

Ermmm

Healthcare isn't a right. It's a privilege.

domhunt wrote:Ermmm

Healthcare isn't a right. It's a privilege.

Magma, you gonna stand for that?

domhunt wrote:Ermmm

Healthcare isn't a right. It's a privilege.

Incorrect. Human beings first grouped together so that they could benefit from economies of scale by sharing ideas, farming food and providing for the sick, weak and elderly. It's not just a right, it's a central tenet of human existence in civilisation. Every human population treats its sick, only ones that sprouted up in the last couple of centuries ever charged them for the "privilege".

But you can convince yourself to turn your back on your fellow Man for myriad reasons. Do you.

southstar wrote:Magma, you gonna stand for that?

just out of interest, how far does healthcare go?

Nevalo wrote:just out of interest, how far does healthcare go?

How do you mean?

magma wrote:

Nevalo wrote:just out of interest, how far does healthcare go?

How do you mean?

whoops, i meant to put "in your opinion, how far SHOULD healthcare go" eg do we just look after the sick, or try prevent it etc

Nevalo wrote:

magma wrote:

Nevalo wrote:just out of interest, how far does healthcare go?

How do you mean?

whoops, i meant to put "in your opinion, how far SHOULD healthcare go" eg do we just look after the sick, or try prevent it etc

scandinavian model all the way. everything covered except for optical, dental and dermatological procedures..
you can even opt out for private healthcare if you wish to pay,though it's closely monitored by the ministry of health.

LACE wrote: scandinavian model all the way.

Yeah scandinavian models are sexy.

but why not just encompass everything else? (and this is without looking at the money side of things)

thats what confuses me when people say its a 'right'...

Nevalo wrote:

magma wrote:

Nevalo wrote:just out of interest, how far does healthcare go?

How do you mean?

whoops, i meant to put "in your opinion, how far SHOULD healthcare go" eg do we just look after the sick, or try prevent it etc

Ah, well I'd say anything that can reasonably be described as an injury or pathology should be treated to the best of society's ability, including dentistry and basic optometry. The goalposts change every day as the cost of certain treatments drops due to technology and generally accepted standards, but largely I think the only medical procedures that shouldn't be covered are ones being taken for purely aesthetic reasons.

Breast implants are a good one to use as an example. Want bigger boobs so you can get a job dancing or modelling or find a better man? Save up. Need breast implants because you're going through gender reassignment or you've had a mastectomy? Put it on the country's tab.

yeah, i figure it all should be covered as well. i guess there's a line to be drawn between cosmetic and life threatening procedures though. if you do need to say..go to the dentist, it's all low cost ( at the very least)

*edit
of course magma just put it into perspective in a much more interesting and entertaining read

= P

Nevalo wrote:but why not just encompass everything else? (and this is without looking at the money side of things)

thats what confuses me when people say its a 'right'...

I don't really see the need to ringfence things like dentistry and optometry tbh... private options for both are likely to still be popular as people want dazzling smiles, designer frames and clever lenses, but even the poorest person in society still needs to be able to see and chew their food.

Dentists do phenomenally well out of not being a proper part of the NHS. Bastards.

So when you have a right to the product of someone's labour what's that called again?
Slavery?

These doctors work hard for years and years and spend thousands of their own money to gain the necessary qualifications to enable themselves to help their fellow human and to make a living doing so.

The pharmaceutical companies spend millions on research for the labour, equipment and materials to make these innovations possible so they can cure or help limit the effects of a specific disease.

YOU DO NOT HAVE THE RIGHT TO ANY OF THESE THINGS.
How is that such a hard concept to grasp?

Socialist idiots.

all "rights" are "privileges". you don't even have basic human rights unless there is a social and political system in which they are the norm. not going to accept the premise of "x isn't a right, it's a privilege" that there are some things that ARE uncomplicatedly rights and those are the only things society should concern itself with protecting. health is more important than being able to own residential property you don't live in, for instance.

domhunt wrote:So when you have a right to the product of someone's labour what's that called again?
Slavery?

These doctors work hard for years and years and spend thousands of their own money to gain the necessary qualifications to enable themselves to help their fellow human and to make a living doing so.

The pharmaceutical companies spend millions on research for the labour, equipment and materials to make these innovations possible so they can cure or help limit the effects of a specific disease.

YOU DO NOT HAVE THE RIGHT TO ANY OF THESE THINGS.
How is that such a hard concept to grasp?

Socialist idiots.

you don't get to have all the sweeties in the bag kiddo. cry moar

domhunt wrote:
The pharmaceutical companies spend millions on research for the labour, equipment and materials to make these innovations possible so they can cure or help limit the effects of a specific disease.

the pharmaceutical companies dont care about curing diseases

domhunt wrote:So when you have a right to the product of someone's labour what's that called again?
Slavery?

These doctors work hard for years and years and spend thousands of their own money to gain the necessary qualifications to enable themselves to help their fellow human and to make a living doing so.

The pharmaceutical companies spend millions on research for the labour, equipment and materials to make these innovations possible so they can cure or help limit the effects of a specific disease.

YOU DO NOT HAVE THE RIGHT TO ANY OF THESE THINGS.
How is that such a hard concept to grasp?

Socialist idiots.

Doctors and Chemists make an awful lot of profit from the sacrifices made in their early careers... and, I'm not sure what you're talking about re: slavery, because they get paid either way... whether it comes from the private individual's pocket or the country's coffers - do you think NHS doctors work for free or something?

Actually, are you trolling? Not a bad effort if so.