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So if it isn't taxes, then why are a lot of people in France voting for the far-right?

OGLemon wrote:So if it isn't taxes, then why are a lot of people in France voting for the far-right?

Rönin wrote:voters' stupidity

?

Re: taxes : http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-26327114

The accountancy firm PricewaterhouseCoopers (PWC) has crunched the numbers for the G20 nations.

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More or Less: Behind the stats

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For each country, they calculated how much a high earner on a salary of $400,000 (£240,000) in 2013, with a mortgage of $1.2m (£750,000), would have left after all income tax rates and social security contributions.

They assume this person is married with two children, one of them aged under six.

These are their findings. In each country, the wage earner takes home the following proportion of his or her salary.

Italy - 50.59% (takes home $202,360 out of $400,000 salary)
India - 54.90%
United Kingdom - 57.28%
France - 58.10%
Canada - 58.13%
Japan - 58.68%
Australia - 59.30%
United States - 60.45% (based on New York state tax)
Germany - 60.61%
South Africa - 61.78%
China - 62.05%
Argentina - 64.02%
Turkey - 64.64%
South Korea - 65.75%
Indonesia - 69.78%
Mexico - 70.60%
Brazil - 73.32%
Russia - 87%
Saudi Arabia - 96.86% (so you take home $387,400 out of the $400,000 salary)

so taking everything into account my previous post was fairly incorrect, but France isn't the higher.

OGLemon wrote:So if it isn't taxes, then why are a lot of people in France voting for the far-right?

many reasons, but I think the main one is they've been disenchanted by the way usual parties govern the countries. A lot of people don't really feel their vote has any significance whatsoever anymore. Thus a lot simply do not vote (57% non-voters for this election); a lot others shamefully think that FN represents hope and turn themselves towards them. Which is frightening - voting FN used to be seen as a way to protest against traditional politics, but it is increasingly people thinking what they offer to do is the only hope for our country. Which is complete batshit

exfox wrote: many reasons, but I think the main one is they've been disenchanted by the way usual parties govern the countries.

OGLemon wrote:

exfox wrote: many reasons, but I think the main one is they've been disenchanted by the way usual parties govern the countries.

Definitely. Add to this the fact that many people feel that a lot of the austerity measures being taken around Europe are due to EU directives and such (which is at least partially true). Combined with a myriad of other reasons, this makes the EU generally seems 'oppressive' or, really, like a bureaucratic steamroller.

The far right wing parties in turn offer an easy way to protest against all this in that they're almost all anti-EU.

Not saying this is the only reason people vote right wing, btw.

Reese Liar wrote:

OGLemon wrote:

exfox wrote: many reasons, but I think the main one is they've been disenchanted by the way usual parties govern the countries.

Definitely. Add to this the fact that many people feel that a lot of the austerity measures being taken around Europe are due to EU directives and such (which is at least partially true). Combined with a myriad of other reasons, this makes the EU generally seems 'oppressive' or, really, like a bureaucratic steamroller.

The far right wing parties in turn offer an easy way to protest against all this in that they're almost all anti-EU.

exactly

Not saying this is the only reason people vote right wing, btw.

true as well. can't speak for other countries, but I'm pretty sure most people in France voted (or didn't vote at all) with France in mind, not Europe. Voting FN was mostly a reaction to things happening in France, not the EU, I think

^ well, european elections votes are used as "punishment votes" or w/e they're called, to draw attention to the fact that the rulling parties are doing a shit job. then again, they're the elections in which people vote by personal preference/ideology etc more, because they have less of an impact than parliamentary or presidential ones

It's also easier to get what you want as it's proportional representation

OGLemon wrote:So if it isn't taxes, then why are a lot of people in France voting for the far-right?

i posted this a few pages ago but i feel its relevant again: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zcjuOjhcuVY

Even the guy who founded UKIP think's their useless http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... ns-monster

JizzMan wrote:

OGLemon wrote:So if it isn't taxes, then why are a lot of people in France voting for the far-right?

i posted this a few pages ago but i feel its relevant again: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zcjuOjhcuVY

His views on how universities should be more questioning about the nature of social problems instead of being technical experts for people in power is quite on point...

what are we gonna do about this mess ay.
How can we, average voters with little influence, do something about it? seems frustrating to rely on the major parties to rescue us from another fucking hung parliament, involving UKIP.
I hope to sweet lord, the people who didn't vote get out there next year and swing the balance back to normality.
Seems as though the only real hope is labour. any votes for lib dem or green are completely wasted imo, even though they may be a lot of people's traditional parties - green did terribly this year considering the opportunity they had. Need to back labour hard in the hope we can have a single party, centre-left leadership again.

murky21 wrote:what are we gonna do about this mess ay.
How can we, average voters with little influence, do something about it? seems frustrating to rely on the major parties to rescue us from another fucking hung parliament, involving UKIP.
I hope to sweet lord, the people who didn't vote get out there next year and swing the balance back to normality.
Seems as though the only real hope is labour. any votes for lib dem or green are completely wasted imo, even though they may be a lot of people's traditional parties - green did terribly this year considering the opportunity they had. Need to back labour hard in the hope we can have a single party, centre-left leadership again.

I think time will tell murky.

UKIP and the rest of the right wingers cannot have any real weight inside the EP. Their only common denominator is they want to get out of the EU, and it's easy to foresee the center left and center right will unite to defeat them systematically on every statement and proposition in that direction. As for the rest, they are basically 20-seater groups who have their own opinions and won't team up with the rest because they see them as undesirable for their electors.

The biggest hope I have out of this election is that the Union will take it as a wake-up call and take a long, hard look at its democratic legitimacy. I have a good relationship with Philippe Lamberts (belgian green MEP, he was the one who capped the banking CEO's bonuses then went inside the City to defend his measures) and I talk to him regularly, he says the some MEPs are beginning to look for specialists to draw up a treaty reform. The MEPs (in all the camps) are not happy with the state of the EU either, they want to reverse that awul tendency to give more power to the council, it's a very slippery slope that leads all the way to oligarchy. He also said that now that extremists have entered the parliament, the coalitions will be forced to impose strict discipline in terms of presence and voting quorums. That's not entirely a bad thing either.


TL;DR efforts have to be made by everyone, from the media to the representatives and off course the voters.

Edit: Here's the guy, ignore the cringy editing

JizzMan wrote:

OGLemon wrote:So if it isn't taxes, then why are a lot of people in France voting for the far-right?

i posted this a few pages ago but i feel its relevant again: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zcjuOjhcuVY

This dude is coked out of his brains. He suggests we look at fundamental issues, but isn't ready to go fundamental enough.

And in the estimable words of Ayn Rand,

We can ignore reality, but we cannot ignore the consequences of ignoring reality.

murky21 wrote:what are we gonna do about this mess ay.
How can we, average voters with little influence, do something about it? seems frustrating to rely on the major parties to rescue us from another fucking hung parliament, involving UKIP.
I hope to sweet lord, the people who didn't vote get out there next year and swing the balance back to normality.
Seems as though the only real hope is labour. any votes for lib dem or green are completely wasted imo, even though they may be a lot of people's traditional parties - green did terribly this year considering the opportunity they had. Need to back labour hard in the hope we can have a single party, centre-left leadership again.

Whilst I understand your point, to think that Labour in its current incarnation is the solution is just as misguided as a conservative or UKIP voter. There isnt a party for the common man anymore, and how the main two political parties (Lib Dems will be wiped out at the next election no matter what they do now, thats what happens when you sell your ideals for power) in the uk have absolutely failed to deal with UKIP shows that they simply couldnt give less of a fuck about the sentiments of the electorate. I'll be spoiling my vote come the next election and if everyone did the same, then that would be a real wake up call to the ruling class. You can castigate me all you want for not voting for any party, but no matter what they claim their political affiliation to be (bar older MPs such as the late Tony Benn, I disagree with Socialism personally but he stood up for what he believed in no matter what and for that he deserves total respect), 99 percent of all modern politicians are a bunch of identikit upper class wankers who care about power and fuck all else. Also, the last time we had a single party centre left leadership we got Tony Blair and Gordon Brown, who as I recall fucked the country up just as much as the bankers did, i.e selling our gold reserves at the lowest price they had been for years, and deregulating the financial industry making it possible for them to do exactly what they did.

There's actually a motion going through parliament for voter recall of politicians. That would make them more likely to listen to people. so obviously some of them are trying to stop it. 38 Degrees had a petition on it

JizzMan wrote:

OGLemon wrote:So if it isn't taxes, then why are a lot of people in France voting for the far-right?

i posted this a few pages ago but i feel its relevant again: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zcjuOjhcuVY

thats probably the most coherent talk/interview zizek has ever done, normally after about 5 sentences he's already hit a tangent that's completely unrelated to what he's supposed to be talking about

hes still the best tho

The rise of anti-immigration policies in Europe are the results of forced intigration and making special appeals to special interest groups (various types of immigrants AND people who are anti-immigration).

Borders should've always been open and the responsibility for who chooses to live within those borders should have never been placed on people already living there. Anyone with even slight people's knowledge would've known that people don't really enjoy being forced to take responsibility for someone's else's actions. It seems only gov. bureaucrats are dumb enough to not get that. And that this type of widespread meddling will create tension that clears the way for some right xenophobia if someone chooses to exploit that, such as political parties. This is why you only get two extremes; self-loathing white "liberals" or xenophobic "conservatives".

A teacher can't just force 2 kids who don't like each other to play along by repeatedly telling them to. They should just leave them alone and with time they'll get used to each other's presence.

test recordings wrote:There's actually a motion going through parliament for voter recall of politicians. That would make them more likely to listen to people. so obviously some of them are trying to stop it. 38 Degrees had a petition on it

I'd get involved in that, it isn't necessarily the system thats broken, its the arseholes that have got too comfortable abusing it, we need a new set of politicians that are actually just normal people, I personally would be in favour of paying politicians minimum wage and virtually zero expenses (within reason, london mps would get less than someone who has to dravel all the way down from manchester, but tbh even then we should probably just buy nothern mps railcards every year or some shit), I imagine a lot of them would pack up and find a different 'vocation' pretty darn quick

EDIT - found and signed it, heres the link for anyone else who wants to:

http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/56449