Dubstepforum.com

skimpi wrote:just turn everything else down until it fits, and then turn up your monitoring system so that its loud enough again.

that one line of advice i read about 5 months ago, its amazing how much my mixes have improved from that one piece of advice.

Yeah, 3 days ago I made it a common practice to do all my mixes with my master peaking around -6. Mixes are cleaner, and I also learned how to use a Compressor, and those are awesome lol.

macc wrote:Sorry if it isn't really answering your question, but -3 is way too high.

Remember that 6dB is half. So if you have one element at -6, that is half your headroom gone. Two elements at -6dB each = all your headroom gone. Having the drums at -3 will leave you fighting against clipping and struggling to keep everything down and under control.

Rather, set your drums for *around* -8 / -10 (ie, a bit less than half). The bass - if we are talking a pure sine sub - would probably sit best a dB or two below that, any distorted/fullband bass sounds should be effectively treated as different entities and mixed appropriately (due to Fletcher Munson).

This leaves you with a few dB headroom, and everything else is just parsley. No more fighting anything, you *will* get repeatable and consistent levels in your mixes, and better mixes as a result.

I'm using Battery as a drum program, and each drum hit has a volume setting. They're all at different levels basically, so setting them all back can be kind of difficult. Could I just use a compressor to bring everything down to around the same level? I'm using FL10 btw.

FluidMoShun wrote:

macc wrote:Sorry if it isn't really answering your question, but -3 is way too high.

Remember that 6dB is half. So if you have one element at -6, that is half your headroom gone. Two elements at -6dB each = all your headroom gone. Having the drums at -3 will leave you fighting against clipping and struggling to keep everything down and under control.

Rather, set your drums for *around* -8 / -10 (ie, a bit less than half). The bass - if we are talking a pure sine sub - would probably sit best a dB or two below that, any distorted/fullband bass sounds should be effectively treated as different entities and mixed appropriately (due to Fletcher Munson).

This leaves you with a few dB headroom, and everything else is just parsley. No more fighting anything, you *will* get repeatable and consistent levels in your mixes, and better mixes as a result.

I'm using Battery as a drum program, and each drum hit has a volume setting. They're all at different levels basically, so setting them all back can be kind of difficult. Could I just use a compressor to bring everything down to around the same level? I'm using FL10 btw.

you can compress things to lower the difference in volume between different parts as the louder parts will be pushed down and then you can increase the gain so that they are all around the orignal level, but this will alter the sound and feel of the drums, so its best to just alter the volumes if you want them all the same.

a compressor is just a lazy ass way to do it, i mean it would probably sound better to automate the volume of something rather than compress it to get the same effect, but if you can easily change the volume of certain things, why not do that, instead of just taking the easy, not so good sounding, way by compressing?

you never know though the drums could sound better if you compress them you just need to try it, im not gonna tell you will or wont sound good. also why would you want all of your drum sounds at the same volume anyway?

Just turn the bleetin sounds down. I know battery is kind of fucked when it comes to levels, the level fader for each pad makes big jumps, and it is hard to get just the right sound balance purely in battery. One of the things it took me a while to figure out why I didn't like my drum tracks coming out of battery. But with the 3.2 update, you can use text entry for most fields, so if the fader is jumping 1.5 db at its smallest increment, just text entry that mofo. You can turn down battery's master volume if you want to lower everything all together.

Honestly though, if you can't be bothered to turn down individual drum sounds to balance their mix, just forget about producing music. Not trying to be a dick.

If the sounds are all balanced in Battery, but overall they're too loud, then simply turn down the output of Battery.

You don't need to use a compressor to do that - that's terrible advice.

gold

Well in that case, fuck compressors. Of the 7 years I've been composing music, I only spent 1.5 producing and even less properly mixing. I'm not lazy, just still fairly new to mixing. I thought using the "soft" option on compressors with no gain at all would work even better cause of the gradual compression, but apparently compressors are just purposeless garbage.

FluidMoShun wrote:Well in that case, fuck compressors. Of the 7 years I've been composing music, I only spent 1.5 producing and even less properly mixing. I'm not lazy, just still fairly new to mixing. I thought using the "soft" option on compressors with no gain at all would work even better cause of the gradual compression, but apparently compressors are just purposeless garbage.

they do have their purpose, its just the way you were thinking of using it, to just adjust the levels of separate hits so that they are the same, isnt really the best way, and adjusting them separately will probably yield better results.

FluidMoShun wrote:Well in that case, fuck compressors. Of the 7 years I've been composing music, I only spent 1.5 producing and even less properly mixing. I'm not lazy, just still fairly new to mixing. I thought using the "soft" option on compressors with no gain at all would work even better cause of the gradual compression, but apparently compressors are just purposeless garbage.

No need to get arsey

I'm only trying to (politely!) point out that using a compressor for this is like using a large mallet to flick a light switch.

Using a compressor will change the sound. If that's what you want to do, then go ahead. If you just want to turn it down, then use the volume knob. Arguably - actually, in truth - it's 'lazier' than using a compressor.

macc wrote:

FluidMoShun wrote:Well in that case, fuck compressors. Of the 7 years I've been composing music, I only spent 1.5 producing and even less properly mixing. I'm not lazy, just still fairly new to mixing. I thought using the "soft" option on compressors with no gain at all would work even better cause of the gradual compression, but apparently compressors are just purposeless garbage.

No need to get arsey

I'm only trying to (politely!) point out that using a compressor for this is like using a large mallet to flick a light switch.

Using a compressor will change the sound. If that's what you want to do, then go ahead. If you just want to turn it down, then use the volume knob. Arguably - actually, in truth - it's 'lazier' than using a compressor.

He didn't seem arsey? I think he was being sincere mate

I don't think anyone said compressors were purposeless garbage, that's where I got that from.

Sorry if I misread it... Only meaning to help!

FluidMoShun wrote:

macc wrote:Sorry if it isn't really answering your question, but -3 is way too high.

Remember that 6dB is half. So if you have one element at -6, that is half your headroom gone. Two elements at -6dB each = all your headroom gone. Having the drums at -3 will leave you fighting against clipping and struggling to keep everything down and under control.

Rather, set your drums for *around* -8 / -10 (ie, a bit less than half). The bass - if we are talking a pure sine sub - would probably sit best a dB or two below that, any distorted/fullband bass sounds should be effectively treated as different entities and mixed appropriately (due to Fletcher Munson).

This leaves you with a few dB headroom, and everything else is just parsley. No more fighting anything, you *will* get repeatable and consistent levels in your mixes, and better mixes as a result.

I'm using Battery as a drum program, and each drum hit has a volume setting. They're all at different levels basically, so setting them all back can be kind of difficult. Could I just use a compressor to bring everything down to around the same level? I'm using FL10 btw.

You can assign each channel out in Battery to individual mixer channels, failing that you can go into each drum cell and independently set the volume for that cell. Really, it's best to put them into separate mixer channels, then you can group and subgroup them as you need, and EQ/compress as appropriate.

Using pure compression to keep levels in check is going to kill you

^and your sounds.

I just read this over at the Reaper forum.
An interesting discussion around gain structuring.
It is specific to Reaper but still very informative.

http://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=82590

Here is a small excerpt:

"Digital and analog levels

There is so much lack of knowledge and misconception in this area, even with plugin developers, that I tried to suggest an easy cure: different metering. As simple as that.

I think many people here have heard about Ensoniq Paris and its superior sonic qualities. Now guess what they've done to achieve this! They cheated.

They just re-labelled the Paris channel meters to different values. "0" doesn't mean "0dBFS", "0dBParis" is probably about -12dBFS in reality. Which means: the reference point was labelled "-10", and was probably much lower when measured in dBFS. Nobody ever complained, simply because the mixes sound significantly better than in PT and any other DAW. Because of a simple psychological trick!

No matter how experienced you are: the visual readout will decide about your tracking levels, about your mixing levels, about your master level. I'm not even talking about integrating analog outboard gear! Although I know exactly that I shouldn't track/mix too hot, I regularly find myself lowering the track faders because a mere +3dB at 60Hz here and 1.5dB at 500Hz there will slowly add up, until the folder input is clipping. "Hell, I thought I was far below zero." - "Not enough, monsieur, not enough."

I dream of ReaMeters with a user configurable scale – calibrated e.g. to your ADDA if you like – with a large yellow area from -60 to -18dBFS (labelled "0" if you like) and a very small red space for the "headroom" range above.

Please please please support this – from my experience 90% of the users don't know why their mixes sound bad. Plugins distorting, overdriven preamps, limiters all over the place ruining the sound etc. etc. Just because the visual feedback suggests that your levels are perfect. When they aren't."

deafblindmusic wrote:

FluidMoShun wrote:

macc wrote:Sorry if it isn't really answering your question, but -3 is way too high.

Remember that 6dB is half. So if you have one element at -6, that is half your headroom gone. Two elements at -6dB each = all your headroom gone. Having the drums at -3 will leave you fighting against clipping and struggling to keep everything down and under control.

Rather, set your drums for *around* -8 / -10 (ie, a bit less than half). The bass - if we are talking a pure sine sub - would probably sit best a dB or two below that, any distorted/fullband bass sounds should be effectively treated as different entities and mixed appropriately (due to Fletcher Munson).

This leaves you with a few dB headroom, and everything else is just parsley. No more fighting anything, you *will* get repeatable and consistent levels in your mixes, and better mixes as a result.

I'm using Battery as a drum program, and each drum hit has a volume setting. They're all at different levels basically, so setting them all back can be kind of difficult. Could I just use a compressor to bring everything down to around the same level? I'm using FL10 btw.

You can assign each channel out in Battery to individual mixer channels, failing that you can go into each drum cell and independently set the volume for that cell. Really, it's best to put them into separate mixer channels, then you can group and subgroup them as you need, and EQ/compress as appropriate.

Using pure compression to keep levels in check is going to kill you

Word, so I could set kicks, crashes and individual hits to seperate mixer tracks? That's exactly what I'm trying to do I want some to be louder in the mix and some to have effects that others don't. I'm trying that when I get my computer.

macc wrote:I don't think anyone said compressors were purposeless garbage, that's where I got that from.

Sorry if I misread it... Only meaning to help!

I thought using a compressor brought all the levels down at a better ratio than adjusting volume knobs. I don't know how to properly operate a compressor Everyone shut down my idea of using a compressor without really explaining what its for... So I just assumed it was just a lazy way to mix or something haha.

Electric_Head wrote: I dream of ReaMeters with a user configurable scale – calibrated e.g. to your ADDA if you like – with a large yellow area from -60 to -18dBFS (labelled "0" if you like) and a very small red space for the "headroom" range above.

Cubase has this option - you can configure the meter colour staging how you want it. Very handy until it all just becomes habit/natural.

FluidMoShun wrote:Word, so I could set kicks, crashes and individual hits to seperate mixer tracks? That's exactly what I'm trying to do I want some to be louder in the mix and some to have effects that others don't. I'm trying that when I get my computer.

Correct - that's precisely what you want to do. I can't talk to the approach in Fruity, but in Cubase you can add channel assignments in the instrument panel and then each cell can be assigned to one of those outputs. Bottom right on the "Cell" tab in Battery, underneath the volume slider, you'll likely see it saying "Master". Clicking on that will allow you to select an independent output and thereafter that cell will be sent to that output, which should appear as a channel in your mixer.

Like I said though, if that plain doesn't work, you can use the individual channel volume sliders in each cell to set the overall mix level - although it's preferable to mix/group/sub-group in your mixer as your creative options are far wider (more compression/EQ options than using the inboard Battery ones).

Good luck!

FluidMoShun wrote:Everyone shut down my idea of using a compressor without really explaining what its for... So I just assumed it was just a lazy way to mix or something haha.

What a compressor does is tame transients of sound by a particular amount (ratio) over a specific amount of time (attack and release).

The probably most-used use of a compressor is to bring down peak transients to better match the rest of the overall volume of a particular sound. For instance you may have a snare sound, if you imagine how this waveform would look you'd have a massive spike transient at the start and then the decay of the sound after that. The loudest part of the spike will be where your peak volume hits (or where the channel fader shows -3dB or whatever it's coming in as). Along with peak volume, you also have RMS volume. This is the average volume of the sound, as in the volume that the sound is for the majority of time it's playing.

So, in a nutshell, you'll often be using a compressor to bring down your peaks to closer match your RMS volumes.

Ratio
So when you're compressing a sound the first thing you'll want to decipher is how much you want to bring down the sound to meet something else. In a drum loop for example, you might have a kick that's peaking at -3dB and a snare that's peaking at -5dB and you want the overall level of the drum loop to peak at around -5 but maintain a consistent level (as in - if you just turned down the drop loop so the kick peaked at -5, the snare would then peak at -7, but you want both the kick and snare to peak at -5). This is done using the ratio. If you want to tame your -3dB kick down to -5dB you'll probably want a ratio of between 2:1 and 4:1 depending on how 'effective' the compressor is.

2:1 would basically mean that a sound is turned down by 2dB for every 1dB that's over the threshold. But generally all compressors are different and I usually find that 2:1 is only really effective enough for 'soft' compression uses. 3:1 is usually a good starting point for most sounds, then decide whether you need more or less compression later on.

Threshold
Next you need to bring your threshold down so that when your kick is hitting, the gain reduction is between 2-3dB so that your kick is bought down to the snares level.

Attack/Release
Is your kick starting to sound a bit flat and boring? Your attack is probably too low. Bring it up until the sound has its life back! The attack determines how quickly the compressor starts smashing that sound down. For transient sounds you'll want fairly high attack settings so that they're not pulling the 'snap', 'pluck' or 'hit' out of your sounds.

So imagine your waveform, the attack determines where through that peak the sound begins being cut, imagine that turning your attack up is slowly moving to the right across a waveform (very, very subtly).

The release determines how long the compression lasts for before dropping off and becoming an uncompressed bit of sound basically, with drum sounds you generally want this quite low that so the sounds remain vibrant and uncompressed because they're much quieter than the peaks anyway, but on other sounds such as string passages you might want your release a bit higher so that sustained sounds which have similar decay volumes to their peaks continue to be compressed.

Gain
Finally, bypass your compressor and see where the sound peaks on your channel strip turn your sound down so that the peak is at the level in the mix you want it to be. Now un-bypass your compressor and look at your channel strip level meter again, if your peak level is lower (which is should be, slightly) then bring your gain up a little to meet what the channel strip said previously.

What you've potentially done here is turn down the peak transient, then turned up the decay to meet that previous peak... Making the sound seem audibly louder in full (because it's the whole sound, not just the peak that's louder in the mix - without wasting too much headroom).

Now think of this in the instance of say a guitar passage where you have some bits that are slightly louder than others, if you want to level them out a bit... Use the above advice and play around with the parameters a bit until you get a desired result. The art of shaping sounds with compression is really in the attack and release settings, but I suppose a good ear for how much a sound needs to be compressed (ratio and threshold settings) is also just as important.