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Thanks depone.

sham, check http://www.dubstepforum.com/parallel-co ... 35698.html

screenshot ^

thanks!

Personally I don't see why you wouldn't easily get this sound using a high passed 808 kick and a sub bass with a long decay time?

EDIT: obviously it would be a little more in depth, maybe saturating a certain frequency of the kick to find a sweet spot, or using a certain musical key so that the sub bass is more prominent, compression to bring out transients... But personally I fail to see why parallel compression would be necessary to achieve this sound?

wirez wrote:Personally I don't see why you wouldn't easily get this sound using a high passed 808 kick and a sub bass with a long decay time?

EDIT: obviously it would be a little more in depth, maybe saturating a certain frequency of the kick to find a sweet spot, or using a certain musical key so that the sub bass is more prominent, compression to bring out transients... But personally I fail to see why parallel compression would be necessary to achieve this sound?

another spanner in the works:D

It took me a while till I could hear the difference but now i have it stands out a mile that the kick in the video sounds very different.

I have been playing around now with 3 compressors and it is doing nothing to bring out the attack/punch part of an 808 bd.

I can make the whole overall sound bigger and add more boom/bass but nothing to make it more punchy like in the clip I showed.

A 909bd sounds the closest to it, it has the punch but no the tail. So with the 808 lp under it I can get a boom tail but its not right still.

I still think its been boosted loads at mastering stage:(

serox wrote: I still think its been boosted loads at mastering stage:(

overall volume yes, but its not really the ME's job to make an 808/909 kick drum individually sound punchy. Thats down to you in your mix.
The ME will make the overall sound punchy clear and amazing.

Depone wrote:

serox wrote: I still think its been boosted loads at mastering stage:(

overall volume yes, but its not really the ME's job to make an 808/909 kick drum individually sound punchy. Thats down to you in your mix.
The ME will make the overall sound punchy clear and amazing.

So they wont ever boost a bd frequency's to change it so that it stands out more?

I need to get futures_untold over to see if he can show me becuase I have been trying what you lot are suggesting and its not getting close at all. Its like I am not even playing with the right things to start with:/

I think this is probably just an 808 with some careful compression and EQ.

What a lot of people forget (or didn't know to begin with) about 808 kicks -- and sub-bass in general -- is that the actual sound is secondary to what surrounds it. An 808 kick is, give or take some noise, just a sine wave. Sure you can shape the amplitude with compression, but there's really not that much in it. Getting an 808 to sound big is 90% about the OTHER stuff that's going on in the mix, not the 808 itself.

That's why you don't often hear 808s on their own in brostep tracks....

Also, remember that since you're dealing with a pitch-modulated sine wave, you've only got one frequency, so EQing it will only serve to bring out certain portions in the sample (eg 500 will give you the first few milliseconds, 150Hz the next 20, and sub will give you the decay)....

damagedgoods wrote:I think this is probably just an 808 with some careful compression and EQ.

What a lot of people forget (or didn't know to begin with) about 808 kicks -- and sub-bass in general -- is that the actual sound is secondary to what surrounds it. An 808 kick is, give or take some noise, just a sine wave. Sure you can shape the amplitude with compression, but there's really not that much in it. Getting an 808 to sound big is 90% about the OTHER stuff that's going on in the mix, not the 808 itself.

That's why you don't often hear 808s on their own in brostep tracks....

I get what you are saying but I have been playing that record and goldboy tape 808bd at the same db. I can feel on my turntables like a thump that is not present at all on any 808 I can find. I can make the 808 bigger and rattle the room but the first thump is like a hard kick, its different, it has punch.

With decent headphones I can hear it is different too.

A lot of different ideas here and my compression knowledge is zero:)

If anyone thinks they know more about it and can do it, i would love to hear!

I've given this a few minutes to recreate. While I couldn't do it, I'm almost 100% sure this is a layerd 808 tuned down a little more than 4 whatever (Kontakt, is it semi-notes? cent?) and a super-dry characterless kick on top. I tried EQing the 808 but it would sound distincly different than this very dry punch. Turned up my headphones and I know what you're after. Compression alone doesn't do it either. Checking from the frequency analyzer, the Loefah kickdrum seems to have a bit more at about 120-130hz. If you check the 808 in an analyzer, you'll se it has some sort of valley at about 110 hz which isn't there on the Loefah one. It also appears to be EQed to remove a bit at around 100, the original 808 goes from the peak to like 110 whereas the Loefah one goes from peak to 100 or something if you can follow me.

So my conclusion: Slightly EQed 808, tuned down 4 cents or whatever and a super-dry 2nd kick layerd on top.

I havent heard the sample and i don't know much about compressive thumping but from what everyone is saying, it sounds like its probably just a layered kick...

iambullet wrote:I've given this a few minutes to recreate. While I couldn't do it, I'm almost 100% sure this is a layerd 808 tuned down a little more than 4 whatever (Kontakt, is it semi-notes? cent?) and a super-dry characterless kick on top. I tried EQing the 808 but it would sound distincly different than this very dry punch. Turned up my headphones and I know what you're after. Compression alone doesn't do it either. Checking from the frequency analyzer, the Loefah kickdrum seems to have a bit more at about 120-130hz. If you check the 808 in an analyzer, you'll se it has some sort of valley at about 110 hz which isn't there on the Loefah one. It also appears to be EQed to remove a bit at around 100, the original 808 goes from the peak to like 110 whereas the Loefah one goes from peak to 100 or something if you can follow me.

So my conclusion: Slightly EQed 808, tuned down 4 cents or whatever and a super-dry 2nd kick layerd on top.

Thank you for pointing that out in better detail that I could provide!

I was starting to wonder if anyone else could actually hear what I was on about with the difference! I cannot see how compression alone would remove and add new frequency's so dramatically.

The closest I have got to it (already said) was a pitched down 808with a lp filter to remove any thump and then layer a 909 (a 909 has natural punch to it!).

I cannot find any other Loefah tracks that use a 909, they are all 808 based so it was confusing me!

Anyone else can feel free to give it a go if they think it is all about compression

yamaz wrote:I havent heard the sample and i don't know much about compressive thumping but from what everyone is saying, it sounds like its probably just a layered kick...

There are a number of people on here who I think know what they are on about who seem to think it is only compression:/

I have given it a go and disagree but also admit I never use compressors so it could be user error.

Just a thought mate.... Why dont you ask the man himself? I think he is on here.

JFK wrote:Just a thought mate.... Why dont you ask the man himself? I think he is on here.

Never seen him post on here and myspace is full of spam so I would expect to be ignored.

If he is smart he wont give it away, his tracks are based around heavy dry bass that no one else seems to be achieving (that I know of).

He is on here mate. Search posts written by him and you will see. Drop him a PM, you never know......

It's really hard to tell from the Youtube sample, but it doesn't sound like layering to me. If there's really some kind of attack that isn't in an original 808 sample, I'd guess maybe he's added a very short pitch decay (maybe +10s/t, 10-20ms or something) to increase the attack, then softened it a little by lengthening the amplitude attack to cover up the "click"...

damagedgoods wrote:It's really hard to tell from the Youtube sample, but it doesn't sound like layering to me. If there's really some kind of attack that isn't in an original 808 sample, I'd guess maybe he's added a very short pitch decay (maybe +10s/t, 10-20ms or something) to increase the attack, then softened it a little by lengthening the amplitude attack to cover up the "click"...

I have the 12" and the youtube clip is still very good tbh. I am at work now or I would upload a bar loop of it to show you.

How would you add a 'short pitched decay' ? not sure I follow you.

Well an 808 kick in the first place is basically just a sine wave with an exponential pitch envelope going from high to low. You can accentuate it by adding more of the same. In Ableton Sampler you click Pitch/Osc, turn on Pitch Envelope and set attack to zero, sustain to zero and decay to something like 10-50 ms. "Amount" is how much the pitch actually changes. You should be able to do this in any sampler though. S'a good way of getting more attack out of quite clean sounding synth drums.

damagedgoods wrote:Well an 808 kick in the first place is basically just a sine wave with an exponential pitch envelope going from high to low. You can accentuate it by adding more of the same. In Ableton Sampler you click Pitch/Osc, turn on Pitch Envelope and set attack to zero, sustain to zero and decay to something like 10-50 ms. "Amount" is how much the pitch actually changes. You should be able to do this in any sampler though. S'a good way of getting more attack out of quite clean sounding synth drums.

Another thing that sounds simple in Ableton but has left me confused in Reason/FL.

I'm gonna have to chime in and say it is just simple 808 and compression as well...

After all, that's pretty much what the Beastie Boys did, and they have yet to be topped in that category - even 25 years later