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If you think that dubstep can be anything, you gotta accept that it can also be something you don't like.

I at least expect it to have some dub influence and some 2step influence. Why would you even want to call your music dubstep if it's like the opposite of dub? Might as well call it polkastep or something. Halftime drums only make it 50% dubstep and that doesn't even qualify sometimes IMO. There's a bit more to it then just "well my tempo's at 140 but my snares hit only on da tird beet"
Who really cares though, call it what you want. Purists are just going to call it "shit" the same as music that does fit the traditional dubstep criteria but isn't any good. You're going to have to wade through it either way. It is unfortunate that people are gonna think "hyena rape" when you tell them what kind of music you're into but that's just another chance to prove how musically elite you are by schooling them

SunkLo wrote:I at least expect it to have some dub influence and some 2step influence. Why would you even want to call your music dubstep if it's like the opposite of dub? Might as well call it polkastep or something. Halftime drums only make it 50% dubstep and that doesn't even qualify sometimes IMO. There's a bit more to it then just "well my tempo's at 140 but my snares hit only on da tird beet"
Who really cares though, call it what you want. Purists are just going to call it "shit" the same as music that does fit the traditional dubstep criteria but isn't any good. You're going to have to wade through it either way. It is unfortunate that people are gonna think "hyena rape" when you tell them what kind of music you're into but that's just another chance to prove how musically elite you are by schooling them

Genres are an entirely cultural thing, they say very little about the music.

And to answer your initial question: music genres always evolve into the opposite thing of what they originally were. It's unavoidable. Breakcore in the early/mid '90s was industrial hardcore/gabber with a fuckload of distortion and some simple break edits. 10 years later and it's melodic, intricate break fuckery with hardcore kicks and jungle worship. I can name countless more examples.

As I said, it's a cultural thing. Dubstep may have started out as dubby 2-step with jungle bass weight, but with time it's likely to change. And a lot of it has changed. The reason people call both 'Anti War Dub' and 'Sweetshop' dubstep is entirely cultural (and I am not saying that Anti War Dub has a more 'legitimate' claim to the word dubstep), but that's the same with all music genres. When the community at large decides it's 'dubstep', it is dubstep. When the community at large decides it's no longer dubstep but something else, it is something else.

Any and every musical genre can be anything, you can literally do as much with hip-hop as you can with metal or whatever. The label (dubstep, rock, hip-hop, whatever) is merely a cultural signifier, not an exact description compressed into a word.

Lots of people here are passionate about dubstep and I mean, I am too among other things, but it's a good idea to remember that what you're passionate about is an abstract cultural entity, not a neatly catergorizable set of sounds.

My own rant...

The whole wobble/filth/brostep thing is weird...because in my opinion a lot of this boils down to sound design. That wobbly shit was intriguing for quite some time just because it was fresh. Stimulating shit and all that jazz. But ultimately it becomes redundant, and if it isn't produced by 15-20 trusted producers who do that sound well, I can't be bothered. There are a lot of tunes on soundcloud, a lot of tunes that are being released (why they being released is beyond me) that I listen to them and think "i coulda made this tune in 15 min flat". When the entire sound can be replicated in no time at all I think people need to start reconsidering what they're doing....or not, I guess thats their business. but to be honest the whole brostep popularity thing, while annoying in the sense that I can go through 50 people soundclouds and they all sound the same, doesn't bother me...because:

a) when I do find a next level artist (V.I.V.E.K, Actress, Milyoo, XI, etc) it makes their shit special. I haven't closed the tab with Milyoo's music all week. serious! it's all about digging

b) as I said before, if I want that midrange shit I immediately go to 15-20 producers and ignore the rest. I don't vibe off much rottun or cookie monsta or cragga but I don't go to shows that push any of that shit, I aint forced to listen to their shit. if anything I sometimes find it amusing to compare random artists and see how similar they sound. makes me sound like an asshole but I get some good laughs outta some random brostep youtube comparisons

but random brostep tune I found interesting: Gecko...it's actually quite nuts to be honest!

so then why is there all this desperate, protective, fanboyism for deeper artists? something about the different layering of sounds and the textures and all, makes it more pleasing to MY ears. chord progressions, all of that. actual melody. it has more replay value. I approach music like "will I listen to this a year from now? 2 years? 3 years? 15 years?" I find a higher percentage of deeper, or lets just say NON-brostep falls into that category. a higher percentage of the other wobblers fall into the "these all sound the same and 20 min from now I won't remember who made what" category.

i find this the same with glitch-hop. "bangers" are to glitch-hop what "brostep" is to dubstep. it's good for awhile but it gets repetitve. and for some reason i find glitch hop bangers more offensive than brostep because brostep has some entertainment value. but the sound design techniques used for a glitch make it more redundant and irritating for me:

*standard hip hop beat pattern* kick kick snare kick kick kick snare..BLEEEP blooop ZING (effectrix) WRRRRRUUUMMM doooooooop dee BLEEP (standard ableton effects used uninterestingly)*

WREAKS of ableton. Sad but true. That genre got old for me fast. interesting enough of a movement to watch more from the outside, an interesting alternative to dubstep, but fuck...



each to their own

/rant

Hahahaha damn, the Pirate Exposer ACTUALLY stuck around

the festival I played last sunday.. there was a guy there trying to tell me tha tdubstep was an american invention

I lol'd

wirez wrote:Hahahaha damn, the Pirate Exposer ACTUALLY stuck around

LOL not for too much longer tbh. too tedious of a task.

nowaysj wrote:I've long been dismayed at the inarticulate usage of language as well.

Here here!

FSTZ wrote:the festival I played last sunday.. there was a guy there trying to tell me tha tdubstep was an american invention

I lol'd

Saw some nob's MySpace page not long ago - a hip-hop DJ from fucking Montana, of all places - rant in his blog that dubstep was nothing more than recycled instrumental 90's U.S. hip-hop.

abZ wrote:Wrap your head around the idea the dubstep as a term is purely a marketing term at this point.

This.

Most genre names are invented first by critics (i.e. those who don't/can't produce, so they critique) - and this is true going back several decades. Then the names are picked up as needed by marketing types looking for catchy 'zinger'/zeitgeist names. Generally, scenes with names with darker or aggro connotations (anything with "-core" for example) will be passed over by the mainstream media typically, who tend to favor broader and more palatable prefab stuff. Conversely, kids looking to push limits are going to gravitate towards that "-core" stuff precisely because it's threatening to the broader public.

'Dubstep' as a name is ripe for marketing because it A) comes with instant cred since everyone acknowledges dub's authenticity, and B) has nice safe dance-y overtones, which is good for sales to 14 year old girls... as are pictures of Rusko's dreamy haircut.

Ganglion-Blackguard wrote:"My taste is better than yours and you should feel bad for liking different music than I do."

+1

alphacat wrote:Generally, scenes with names with darker or aggro connotations (anything with "-core" for example) will be passed over by the mainstream media typically, who tend to favor broader and more palatable prefab stuff. Conversely, kids looking to push limits are going to gravitate towards that "-core" stuff precisely because it's threatening to the broader public.

'Dubstep' as a name is ripe for marketing because it A) comes with instant cred since everyone acknowledges dub's authenticity, and B) has nice safe dance-y overtones, which is good for sales to 14 year old girls... as are pictures of Rusko's dreamy haircut.

That's exactly why I suggest that the music that many of us listen to and make, that was formerly called dubstep, now be called 'flugal'. You couldn't possibly sell anything to anybody with the term flugal. The critics couldn't possibly have flugal all over their blogs, the core kids couldn't jizz in their pants while listening to flugal in the back of the bus.

Flugal is ahistorical and just down right ugly. Think about it.

Ok,so I stopped reading at page 3,but..I'm with FSTZ on that one.I like some "filth dubstep" sometimes,like excision,datsik,etc but not when it's becoming over the top randomness(Diesel for instance).But I'm with the fact that this genre isn't anything like Dubstep from Distance,DMZ,L-Wiz etc..So like in metal there should be another name for this music,not because it's bad or because I don't like it and want to be elitist(like some people here) but because I don't feel like it's the same genre at all.
With metal you have quite a lot of subgenres,and they ARE needed..Tell me that a power metal song is anything like a death metal song...but metal is still metal,and I feel it's the same with dubstep.So dubstep should have a subgenre for the"filth" category.

alphacat wrote:

FSTZ wrote:the festival I played last sunday.. there was a guy there trying to tell me tha tdubstep was an american invention

I lol'd

Saw some nob's MySpace page not long ago - a hip-hop DJ from fucking Montana, of all places - rant in his blog that dubstep was nothing more than recycled instrumental 90's U.S. hip-hop.

abZ wrote:Wrap your head around the idea the dubstep as a term is purely a marketing term at this point.

This.

Most genre names are invented first by critics (i.e. those who don't/can't produce, so they critique) - and this is true going back several decades. Then the names are picked up as needed by marketing types looking for catchy 'zinger'/zeitgeist names. Generally, scenes with names with darker or aggro connotations (anything with "-core" for example) will be passed over by the mainstream media typically, who tend to favor broader and more palatable prefab stuff. Conversely, kids looking to push limits are going to gravitate towards that "-core" stuff precisely because it's threatening to the broader public.

'Dubstep' as a name is ripe for marketing because it A) comes with instant cred since everyone acknowledges dub's authenticity, and B) has nice safe dance-y overtones, which is good for sales to 14 year old girls... as are pictures of Rusko's dreamy haircut.

my mind is blown by both statements

FSTZ wrote:my mind is blown by both statements

[hands FSTZ a tissue]

The inevitable truth is that the earlier 2step evolution will be the one renamed when whatever intensely talented individual in London releases an absolute classic that changes everything. Everyone will again jump on the bandwagon making it turn into an over-popularised piece of turd. People will argue that this new music (which has the audacity to name itself the same as the new genre) is not the same - which it isn't. This shall in turn dissolve the genre and a new brightspark will churn another classic out of London. And so the cycle continues.

I'm expecting people to truly believe dubstep started in America soon. As well as this I think they'll keep the name dubstep. It'll be the deep side that will morph. That ladies and gents is a fact.

Let everyone just do their own thing and move to Croydon if you're sick of it. Because in all honesty it's nothing but downhill from here (until it changes again).

Yo man, what is a turd?

nowaysj wrote:Yo man, what is a turd?

A piece of shit bruv.

Assassin wrote:The inevitable truth is that the earlier 2step evolution will be the one renamed when whatever intensely talented individual in London releases an absolute classic that changes everything. Everyone will again jump on the bandwagon making it turn into an over-popularised piece of turd. People will argue that this new music (which has the audacity to name itself the same as the new genre) is not the same - which it isn't. This shall in turn dissolve the genre and a new brightspark will churn another classic out of London. And so the cycle continues.

I'm expecting people to truly believe dubstep started in America soon. As well as this I think they'll keep the name dubstep. It'll be the deep side that will morph. That ladies and gents is a fact.

Let everyone just do their own thing and move to Croydon if you're sick of it. Because in all honesty it's nothing but downhill from here (until it changes again).

NRHc wrote:Ok,so I stopped reading at page 3,but..I'm with FSTZ on that one.I like some "filth dubstep" sometimes,like excision,datsik,etc but not when it's becoming over the top randomness(Diesel for instance).But I'm with the fact that this genre isn't anything like Dubstep from Distance,DMZ,L-Wiz etc..So like in metal there should be another name for this music,not because it's bad or because I don't like it and want to be elitist(like some people here) but because I don't feel like it's the same genre at all.
With metal you have quite a lot of subgenres,and they ARE needed..Tell me that a power metal song is anything like a death metal song...but metal is still metal,and I feel it's the same with dubstep.So dubstep should have a subgenre for the"filth" category.

How can you really define what genre a song fits into anyway?
I mean, lets think about this.

You've got music.

In music you've got the more 'electric' spectrum (The one using mostly synths and ditital sounds that is produced with electronics) and you've got the 'analouge' spectrum (guitars, drums..... harmonicas etc.)
[Ok before we go any further, a hell load of music is produced pretty much totally using electrical equipment now, but i want you to think about the routes though.]

Inside the electric spectrum you've got genres like trance DnB dubstep etc. and on the analouge side of things you've got hip hop, cheesy pop, metal etc.

then you've got your subgenres. drumstep, liquid DnB, speed core, happy hardcore --------------- power metal and death metal like you said, among other subgenres that i cant think of right now.

And then finally, arguably youve got record labels. now, just think about this. record labels basically act as a devide between the good and the crappy of each subgenre, allowing us to find more of the good stuff.

So you've got to take into consideration,
the instruments used,
the type sounds produced from those instruments of choice,
what kind of mood the song puts you in
if it sucks or not

to be honest, i think subgenres should be cut out of music, because its really a matter of opinion to how a song makes you feel. now i know non of borgores tracks are going to help you fall asleep but really thats an extreme. what if opinions on a song are so varied that no one person can decide where it goes, would a dubstep track in the position just remain as 'dubstep' without fitting into a certian sub-genre?

at the end of the day, the more you break things down the more (as artists) you are limiting yourselves to too much of a specific feel, inevitably destroying all sense of originality.
Some people might say that completley forgetting genres as a whole would be better, but i believe that most people need some sort of guideline to follow, or else we wouldnt hear alot of the truly amazing songs we hear today, nor would we have this forum. think about it, would heist or datsik or sigma produced what they have produced if dubstep and drumnbass did not exist? i dont think so.

anyway, if it wasnt for subgenres, in my opinion we would be seeing alot less if this so called 'brostep' and it would definatley help for the origionality of songs.


Sorry if im not clearly getting across my point here, because its hard to explain my views on such a topic without quite a lengthy post, meaning i will be ever more inclined to reambling on about something i didnt meen to talk about.

TDubz wrote:

NRHc wrote:Ok,so I stopped reading at page 3,but..I'm with FSTZ on that one.I like some "filth dubstep" sometimes,like excision,datsik,etc but not when it's becoming over the top randomness(Diesel for instance).But I'm with the fact that this genre isn't anything like Dubstep from Distance,DMZ,L-Wiz etc..So like in metal there should be another name for this music,not because it's bad or because I don't like it and want to be elitist(like some people here) but because I don't feel like it's the same genre at all.
With metal you have quite a lot of subgenres,and they ARE needed..Tell me that a power metal song is anything like a death metal song...but metal is still metal,and I feel it's the same with dubstep.So dubstep should have a subgenre for the"filth" category.

subgenres. drumstep