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it's a relevant topic of discussion, considering all the shootings lately.

makes me wonder about the 2012 thing, I know many folks on both sides with a bring it on attitude.
Raised sense of enlightenment or the bitter end to a worthless world,

who's to say who's right, time will tell/

I view it more like: the person who breaks into my house has no regard for my wellbeing/life. Why should I have any regard for his? I don't care if he/she's a proper tnuc or has some sob story behind. But regardless of the reason, when you break into someone's house you assume certain consequences, which include getting killed.
Which probably means the other person has a gun and it degenerates into a life or death matter. But tbh I'd rather see things boil down to that than having no means of protecting myself.

ultraspatial wrote:I view it more like: the person who breaks into my house has no regard for my wellbeing/life. Why should I have any regard for his? I don't care if he/she's a proper tnuc or has some sob story behind. But regardless of the reason, when you break into someone's house you assume certain consequences, which include getting killed.
Which probably means the other person has a gun and it degenerates into a life or death matter. But tbh I'd rather see things boil down to that than having no means of protecting myself.

i dont see it that way. just because he's being an immoral tnuc doesn't mean he necessarily has no regard for your wellbeing

Phigure wrote:

ultraspatial wrote:I view it more like: the person who breaks into my house has no regard for my wellbeing/life. Why should I have any regard for his? I don't care if he/she's a proper tnuc or has some sob story behind. But regardless of the reason, when you break into someone's house you assume certain consequences, which include getting killed.
Which probably means the other person has a gun and it degenerates into a life or death matter. But tbh I'd rather see things boil down to that than having no means of protecting myself.

i dont see it that way. just because he's being an immoral tnuc doesn't mean he necessarily has no regard for your wellbeing

Maybe so, but honestly I wouldn't risk it.

if someones just gonna steal my stuff and leave and make no attempt to even wake me up, then i'm not gonna shoot them

it's just material shit, it can probably be replaced

if someones gonna come into my house with the intention of attacking me, i'd firstly question their motives cos i dunno why someone would do that in my house of all houses. then i dunno, maybe my existence is too sheltered to clearly consider these things.

Do we have responsibility for the actions and welfare of others? Old, old question. No good solutions.

here is some you cant understand...

volcanogeorge wrote:if someones gonna come into my house with the intention of attacking me, i'd firstly question their motives cos i dunno why someone would do that in my house of all houses. then i dunno, maybe my existence is too sheltered to clearly consider these things.

Dude that was trying to break into my place had a filthy twelve inch knife and in my opinion was high on pcp. The gulf between everyday rationality and life and death survival thinking is huge. Is huge for me at least. If someone feels that they can chart a more peaceful path through the violent insanity I encountered, my hat is off to you, I did the best I could.

nowaysj wrote:

volcanogeorge wrote:if someones gonna come into my house with the intention of attacking me, i'd firstly question their motives cos i dunno why someone would do that in my house of all houses. then i dunno, maybe my existence is too sheltered to clearly consider these things.

Dude that was trying to break into my place had a filthy twelve inch knife and in my opinion was high on pcp. The gulf between everyday rationality and life and death survival thinking is huge. Is huge for me at least. If someone feels that they can chart a more peaceful path through the violent insanity I encountered, my hat is off to you, I did the best I could.

that's a lot more understandable than just shooting any guy who tries to / does break into your house

a guy armed with a weapon who isnt likely to act rationally is a credible threat to your wellbeing

Phig, I wonder how you would respond, if you'd have the capability to respond. (not dissing your character, just wether you'd have the tools to stop such an attack) Your loss would be a loss to all of us. I think our views on this topic used to be more consonant, but the above experience changed my thinking. The only reason I owned a handgun was because I had gone on a two week backpacking trip through bear country. I didn't have the gun loaded, because I didn't want to have a loaded weapon around me. I keep my gun loaded, and it is within two feet of me now. It is not a big part of my life, but it is there if I need it.

nowaysj wrote:Your loss would be a loss to all of us.

lol what. bit serious there

wub wrote:

Phigure wrote:if i owned a gun (which i dont ever plan on), id just use it to threaten and intimidate at the most

That's quite Freudian.

not in the context of the discussion, surely he's just looking for a less radical answer then shoot to kill.

The fact gun ownership in the home statistically increases you or a family member's chance of being killed by said gun seems like a pretty big deterrent to me. The US doesn't seem to grasp that logic and the cycle of arms ownership never ends.

Just because some people kill their families or whatever doesn't mean the rest of the population should be deprived of guns.

Phigure wrote:i dont see it that way. just because he's being an immoral tnuc doesn't mean he necessarily has no regard for your wellbeing

They are, because they're innitiating force against you by breaking into your home and stealing your property. If they're using violence against you they deff don't respect your well being enough.

If I lived in a gun culture, I'd own a gun. Only one (and a hand gun) and I'd call the police before doing anything. If they're still arppoaching me when they see me holding a gun, I'd fire a warningshot around their feet and if they're still trying to attack me, shoot 'em in the legs/kneecaps (maybe get closer to get a good shot at their arms/hands to make sure they can't grab a potential gun) and wait for the cops to arrest them. But if they'd get the fuck out before I'd even do anything, I'd leave 'em the fuck alone.

I don't believe in killing unless it's out of self-defense and if they're just trying to steal my shit I'd just immobilize them.

lloydnoise wrote:The fact gun ownership in the home statistically increases you or a family member's chance of being killed by said gun

seems like thatd be 100% to 0% seeing as how the other home has no guns to be killed by

rayman612 wrote:

lloydnoise wrote:The fact gun ownership in the home statistically increases you or a family member's chance of being killed by said gun

seems like thatd be 100% to 0% seeing as how the other home has no guns to be killed by

yeh sorry, totally didn't mean to write that, this words it better than I did there -

After adjustment, individuals in possession of a gun were 4.46 (P < .05) times more likely to be shot in an assault than those not in possession. Among gun assaults where the victim had at least some chance to resist, this adjusted odds ratio increased to 5.45 (P < .05).

Conclusions. On average, guns did not protect those who possessed them from being shot in an assault. Although successful defensive gun uses occur each year, the probability of success may be low for civilian gun users in urban areas. Such users should reconsider their possession of guns or, at least, understand that regular possession necessitates careful safety countermeasures.


from here

i think thats still skewed

dont you think that people who have reason to carry a gun are more likely to be in a situation where theyre shot?

thats why theyre carrying the gun in the first place

rayman612 wrote:i think thats still skewed

dont you think that people who have reason to carry a gun are more likely to be in a situation where theyre shot?

thats why theyre carrying the gun in the first place

no and thats exactly the point. 99.99% of people have no reason to carry a gun outside of their residence into public. Doing so makes you more likely to be the victim of a gun crime because you, yourself are more likely to put yourself in harms way because of a false sense of security