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Lye Form wrote:

Mason wrote:i'd much rather be a neo-con fascist than a liberal hippy

I was a neo-con fascist before anybody else was doing it.

u gay 4 di canio m8?

Laszlo wrote:

wub wrote:Agree with Gareth, at least the Falklands had a purpose of sorts.


Plus Argentina was being supplied by Russia

and France.

Just saying

Yet they were kind enough to offer the Harrier pilots training on how to bring down the French aircraft the Argentinians were using

Indeed. Thoroughly decent of them.
My point was it wasn't really a cold war Russia-arms-one-side-the-U.S.A-arms-the-other type deal.

Laszlo wrote:Indeed. Thoroughly decent of them.
My point was it wasn't really a cold war Russia-arms-one-side-the-U.S.A-arms-the-other type deal.

Ah I see, fair comment.


Doing a bit of digging on this, seems Thatcher's relationship with Pinochet meant Chile tipping off our commandos about Argentinian radar positions, as well as providing intelligence on their military.

This is pretty relevant (and spot on, in my opinion) re: holding back criticism in the wake of her (or any public figure's) death:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree ... -etiquette

EDIT: I'm not advocating actual celebration of her death, just the fact that putting a lid on the discussion about the bad things she stood for and enacted leads absolutely nowhere and is frankly insulting to all the people who've been affected by her policies.

Chile was probably more strategically important to us than the US unless you think that Chile acted the way the US would have wanted. Which is reasonable.

Reese Liar wrote:This is pretty relevant (and spot on, in my opinion) re: holding back criticism in the wake of her (or any public figure's) death:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree ... -etiquette

EDIT: I'm not advocating actual celebration of her death, just the fact that putting a lid on the discussion about the bad things she stood for and enacted leads absolutely nowhere and is frankly insulting to all the people who've been affected by her policies.

Considering this was written by the Guardian, I was inclined to think it was a load of shit anyway, and upon reading it turned out to be a load of shit. Every leftist on earth will wheel out the excuses they're demonising tories for using when blair dies without any hint of irony.

Cheeky wrote:

Reese Liar wrote:This is pretty relevant (and spot on, in my opinion) re: holding back criticism in the wake of her (or any public figure's) death:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree ... -etiquette

EDIT: I'm not advocating actual celebration of her death, just the fact that putting a lid on the discussion about the bad things she stood for and enacted leads absolutely nowhere and is frankly insulting to all the people who've been affected by her policies.

Considering this was written by the Guardian, I was inclined to think it was a load of shit anyway, and upon reading it turned out to be a load of shit. Every leftist on earth will wheel out the excuses they're demonising tories for using when blair dies without any hint of irony.

exactly

I'm not particularly fond of Blair, but you're probably right that some of the people celebrating right now will be using the same excuses as the tories when one of their revered figures dies. That's besides the point he's trying to make though, which is that we should strive to paint a nuanced picture of these public figures' lives when they die.
It just doesn't make sense in my opinion that someone who divided people in such an extreme way (you either love or hate her, for the most part) should only be remembered for half of what she stood for.

I would have said the exact same if a leftist leader had died and this had happened.

Nice to see both sides are sticking doggedly to the largely redundant left-right paradigm

I'm sorry, in what world was Blair anything to do with the left??

Cheeky wrote: Considering this was written by the Guardian, I was inclined to think it was a load of shit anyway, and upon reading it turned out to be a load of shit. Every leftist on earth will wheel out the excuses they're demonising tories for using when blair dies without any hint of irony.

Think there are plenty of leftists that consider Blair a war criminal.

I also don't know what relevance that article has to your post

wub wrote:

Laszlo wrote:Indeed. Thoroughly decent of them.
My point was it wasn't really a cold war Russia-arms-one-side-the-U.S.A-arms-the-other type deal.

Ah I see, fair comment.


Doing a bit of digging on this, seems Thatcher's relationship with Pinochet meant Chile tipping off our commandos about Argentinian radar positions, as well as providing intelligence on their military.

Very kind about us landing and burning our helicopters there too. Big up Pinochet, what a ledge.

scspkr99 wrote:

Cheeky wrote: Considering this was written by the Guardian, I was inclined to think it was a load of shit anyway, and upon reading it turned out to be a load of shit. Every leftist on earth will wheel out the excuses they're demonising tories for using when blair dies without any hint of irony.

Think there are plenty of leftists that consider Blair a war criminal.

I also don't know what relevance that article has to your post

Blair was pretty centre ground (hated by all of us) so I concede that, but if any revered left wing political figure dies, the left wing won't in any way stand for any critiscism of said figure with their usual swivel eyed lunacy

Cheeky wrote: Blair was pretty centre ground (hated by all of us) so I concede that, but if any revered left wing political figure dies, the left wing won't in any way stand for any critiscism of said figure with their usual swivel eyed lunacy

That may be the case but then point out the weaknesses of those that wont entertain damage caused by their heroes rather than failing to entertain the damage caused by others.

Cheeky wrote:

scspkr99 wrote:

Cheeky wrote: Considering this was written by the Guardian, I was inclined to think it was a load of shit anyway, and upon reading it turned out to be a load of shit. Every leftist on earth will wheel out the excuses they're demonising tories for using when blair dies without any hint of irony.

Think there are plenty of leftists that consider Blair a war criminal.

I also don't know what relevance that article has to your post

Blair was pretty centre ground (hated by all of us) so I concede that, but if any revered left wing political figure dies, the left wing won't in any way stand for any critiscism of said figure with their usual swivel eyed lunacy

i realise this is all extremely subjective but i can't think of any left wing political figures in the uk who have caused such large scale damage to communities and whole regions

It really depends what you think the Tories are going to have to throw at Leftist heroes. When Tony Benn dies is anyone going to be able to say much other than "Good bloke, I suppose. Nice and posh. I disagreed about how we should be quite so nice to each other. He just wasn't a big enough bastard to be a hero of mine."

Blair doesn't count in the slightest - he gets more hate than Thatcher in a lot of circles for selling the Queen's Opposition out to the free market. We're stuck with wishy-washy shades-of-middle-ground-grey politics because he stopped the Labour party being a Labour party. Thatcher was a Tory tnuc - of course she's going to try and fuck it up for the poor man - that was her job just like it's Cameron's and Osborne's; Blair walked up to the beggar with a tenner in his hand, spat in his face and then spent the tenner on killing brown people. FUCK Blair.

Someone responded yesterday that New Labour was Thatchers greatest achievement.

garethom wrote:Big up Pinochet, what a ledge.

Best pokemon imo.

scspkr99 wrote:Someone responded yesterday that New Labour was Thatchers greatest achievement.

Yep. Her and Reagan made fiscal conservatism so popular that the Left forgot its job was to balance out the psyche of the nation when the Tories are in power, just as the Tories are supposed to balance when the Left gets carried away. Thatcher (along with all the millions of pounds she allowed people to make) convinced them all to pull in the same direction... whatever direction that was, it was never going to be positive for the health of our democracy.