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You guys are full of it.

ChadDub wrote:I'm not meaning to start anything, I'm chillin right now. I'm just talking out of my ass. No hate/worries.

To respond to you, Manic, I use 3xOSC and Sytrus (FL exclusive).

safe

no worries brother, just puttin it in perspective.

ChadDub wrote:I'm not meaning to start anything, I'm chillin right now. I'm just talking out of my ass. No hate/worries.

To respond to you, Manic, I use 3xOSC and Sytrus (FL exclusive).

safe

This for me too. No doubt massive can do great things, just saying why I don't like it. I tried the demo for like a couple weeks, maybe a month but I didn't like it for earlier stated reasons. For those of you that use massive, I'm cool with it, it just doesnt work for me.

and thanks BevOh and Electric Head, I'm feelin the love fam.

EDIT: Wait, why are we talking about massive in the first place?

jrisreal wrote:

ChadDub wrote:I'm not meaning to start anything, I'm chillin right now. I'm just talking out of my ass. No hate/worries.

To respond to you, Manic, I use 3xOSC and Sytrus (FL exclusive).

safe

This for me too. No doubt massive can do great things, just saying why I don't like it. I tried the demo for like a couple weeks, maybe a month but I didn't like it for earlier stated reasons. For those of you that use massive, I'm cool with it, it just doesnt work for me.

and thanks BevOh and Electric Head, I'm feelin the love fam.

EDIT: Wait, why are we talking about massive in the first place?

because its hella massive and does EPIC INTROS! no, actually... ive never used it for an intro... thats an idea though.

You should use it for drums.

lol massive is popular for a reason, its easy to get to grips with and it can make some awesome sounds. if you dont like it, fine, like everything it works for some people and not for others.

@jr we are talking about massive because chad brought up his hate for it out of nowhere.

@manic ive used it for intros, if i was a bit more knowledgable im sure i could get amazing sounds out of it rather than my sub par sounds. i mean i know what massive does for the most part but there are a few things i never touch. but its nice for punchy stabs and even for ambient pads. take a carbon waveform chuck and lfo on WT and then add a fuckload of reverb and delay. nice pad imo. simple as fuck too. but yeah the thing i love about massive is its simple interface.

bump prior to merge

why exactly would anyone believe that Massive was not fully capable of creating intro sounds.
Intros are all about creative build-ups to start a track.
It`s all about how you layer and trigger your sounds.
The synth doesn`t decide your future for goodness sake.

wub wrote:Ok, things to try for intros;

• If your tune has a vocal, then take a dry version of the vocal sample, add some reverse reverb to it with a LONG tail (take sample > reverse it > add reverb > bounce > then reverse back to normal) to insert as an intro. The reverse reverb tail at the start of the vocal will sound like it's sucking itself in before it hits (see Prodigy - Firestarter for an example of how this works on vocals)

every time i hear this technique in a song i think 'how is this done?' but it seems im never at home to give it a shot and figure out.

brettheaslewood wrote:

wub wrote:Ok, things to try for intros;

• If your tune has a vocal, then take a dry version of the vocal sample, add some reverse reverb to it with a LONG tail (take sample > reverse it > add reverb > bounce > then reverse back to normal) to insert as an intro. The reverse reverb tail at the start of the vocal will sound like it's sucking itself in before it hits (see Prodigy - Firestarter for an example of how this works on vocals)

every time i hear this technique in a song i think 'how is this done?' but it seems im never at home to give it a shot and figure out.

brett u ever get that mastering done.. and thanks for the tip wubbbbb

imlouiedawg wrote:Hey guys, I know I may have mentioned this before, but I still struggle creating an intro with every track. I have such a hard time choosing a synth, drums are usually okay for me, but even if i do get the intro down, its still hard for me to go into a breakdown without loosing rhythm. I see lots of posts saying use this and that, but I cant find any tips on how to make the devices with the tools I have because nobody really clarifies what I should If anyone could share with me the basics of intro structure that would be great. Please be descriptive in your responses! If anyone could please steer me in the right direction? I'm using Reason 5 and I have started to study the basics of synthesis. I know this whole topic is very needy, but I'm a fresh young producer trying to learn!

Thanks.

Much Love

- Louie

Hi there:

I am a Reason 5 user aswell and I use ALOT of piano.

I firstly create my lead piano rhythm.
I take that and delete some parts of it so that the intro actually sounds "empty" to the real "drop".
I make a 32 bar intro, usually just the piano intro at the first 8 bars. After the first 8 bars I add my hats, giving motion and rhythm to my intro.
After the first 16 bars I add little elements, like a pad or some vocal/effect to keep the listener curious.

After these 32 bars I often just make the pads fade out. (in my current track I have about 5 bars of emptiness where the pad just wears out).
This builds alot of tension and curiosity.
My drop comes right after, with sub and bass to make it THAT more powerful and meaningful.

I hope I was a help, if you got any questions, shoot!

BevOh wrote:

brettheaslewood wrote:

wub wrote:Ok, things to try for intros;

• If your tune has a vocal, then take a dry version of the vocal sample, add some reverse reverb to it with a LONG tail (take sample > reverse it > add reverb > bounce > then reverse back to normal) to insert as an intro. The reverse reverb tail at the start of the vocal will sound like it's sucking itself in before it hits (see Prodigy - Firestarter for an example of how this works on vocals)

every time i hear this technique in a song i think 'how is this done?' but it seems im never at home to give it a shot and figure out.

brett u ever get that mastering done.. and thanks for the tip wubbbbb

via Dennis @ http://www.mastering.lt/ ?

if so i didn't in the end, the copy of the track i sent him was to loud, and by the time i got round to locating the project to re-export i couldn't find it.
I should really send him something else to be fair, thanks for the reminder bev'!

check that thread see if anyone else sent him stuff

So I'm struggling with creating intros for the tracks I'm producing. I always write the main drop/piece loop first (dont know why but it happens like that) and it sounds cool and all but I don't know how to introduce it or create a nice build up to it.

Any suggestions on how you go about building up your tracks?

I know there is no rule for this but im sure there must be some form of composition technique that you can work around that always works?

Also the feel of most of the loops i create sounds all muddy and doesn't bring that nice swing movement unless I chop up my samples so much it ends up sounding all glitchy,

whats the best way to get that swinging movement while having a consistent bass wobble running over the drum track without cutting up the bass (like tiny gaps in it before the snare) so that you can feel the movement in the loop?

cos as soon as I chop it up it ends up with like hardly any wobble in it and just sounds like glichy random sounds jumping around. i have heard of side-chain compression but any other suggestions?

I am using Ableton live 8 yet it starts to feel messy and I end up with bits and pieces everywhere.. Any other DAW you would recommend I rewire to that can help me structure my tracks a bit better or easier?

Im a newbie so be easy on me! my terms for thing might sound weird.

Thanks

If you want to make a very simple intro you can just add a new instrument/effect every few bars or like use an low pass filter on your leading synth to make it sound like it is fading in progressively. I also like to use white noise sidechained to a kick so it gets that off beat feeling and then I just slowly turn up the color knob.

If your track sounds muddy you might have some issues with EQing? have you cut off the lower frequencies of your not-sub bass tracks? Else there will be clashing frequencies which makes it sound muddy overall.

If you want your kick or snare to really cut through the track I recommend using a Compressor combined with a limiter and of course EQ to get some punch to it. Sidechaining at least your kick to the sub bass may also help.

If you don't know how to do these things you can google/youtube them. There are a lot of great videos out there explaining everything mentioned!

Divane wrote: Compressor combined with a limiter

you know those are the same thing with a different ratio right?

OP... try writing a track from the very first bar sometime. I think you be surprised.

And also, there is absolutely nothing wrong with your daw, any muddyness you might have is probably something to do with your mixdown. We have a sticky called 'the moneyshot thread' that will teach you more in a single sitting then all the youtube vids in the world ever could. Trust, you should read it!

As far as your question about swing... Sidechaining is all well n good but you might want to consider designing your lfo's and envelopes with the rhythm of the track in mind, if you have an lfo reaching its lowest value when the kick hits, the kick is gonna have more room to pop through, if that makes sense? Definately more ideal then sidechaining, sidechaining really has to be seen as a creative effect, not a technical aspect fix.

Darkow wrote:So I'm struggling with creating intros for the tracks I'm producing. I always write the main drop/piece loop first (dont know why but it happens like that) and it sounds cool and all but I don't know how to introduce it or create a nice build up to it.

This is a good way to write. The drop is often the hardest part to write, and sometimes if you write an intro first, your drop can get brought down by weak musical ideas you used in your intro, if you open drop first then you're free to throw out all your strongest musical ideas straight off the bat.

Darkow wrote:Any suggestions on how you go about building up your tracks?

I know there is no rule for this but im sure there must be some form of composition technique that you can work around that always works?

There's no real composition technique that will 'always work' because all composition techniques require you to pick the right notes before they can create anything interesting. But, here are some compositional ideas and tools to play with that can help give your creativity a bit of a bump:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Call_and_r ... 28music%29 - Call and response - interesting way to write, a lot you can do with it, for instance, you can have 2 melody lines playing off of each other, or alternatively you can call and response using instruments, maybe 4 bars using organic sounds, then 4 bars using synthetic sound. There's a lot to play with here.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Counter_Point - Counterpoint

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modulation_%28music%29 Modulation

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transposition_%28music%29 - Transpositions.

Darkow wrote: Also the feel of most of the loops i create sounds all muddy and doesn't bring that nice swing movement unless I chop up my samples so much it ends up sounding all glitchy,

whats the best way to get that swinging movement while having a consistent bass wobble running over the drum track without cutting up the bass (like tiny gaps in it before the snare) so that you can feel the movement in the loop?

cos as soon as I chop it up it ends up with like hardly any wobble in it and just sounds like glichy random sounds jumping around. i have heard of side-chain compression but any other suggestions?

I think if you want a swing feel the best thing to do is understand exactly what a swing feel is from a rhythmic perspective.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swung_note#Swung_note The swung note is what makes it. If you get that you'll not have problems writing shuffley sounding patterns again.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swing_time#Rhythm Bit of further reading if you want, If you scroll down a little, there's a couple of good examples of well known swing patterns. You'll also see mention of Bernard Purdie, I recommend you check out his tunes too, lots of really shuffley drums, just need to sit down and listen to what's going on.

I remember my first wobble.
/dick

on a serious note, the most used way to get a swing movement is to have multiple instruments (ie shakers, cabassas, hihats, rims etc) create it's own rhythm. just listen to a 4-8 bar loop and add something new each time it plays. and don't always put sounds right on the down or up beat. change it up a bit. oh and delay/reverb is key as well to add depth.

Personally, I can't start a song at the drop. I absolutely have to start it at the intro, or else the tune goes to hell.
So you could try to start at the intro, and just see if working in a different way helps you out at all.

Sine69 wrote:Personally, I can't start a song at the drop. I absolutely have to start it at the intro, or else the tune goes to hell.
So you could try to start at the intro, and just see if working in a different way helps you out at all.

Yeah, I rate so too. I just get so ampt up to write the main massive drop piece and then im stuck with how to get into the intro.

Divane wrote:g? have you cut off the lower frequencies of your not-sub bass tracks? El

I usually leave the eqing for last, once I have arranged the entire track is that a good idea?

kaiori breathe wrote:

Darkow wrote:So I'm struggling with creating intros for the tracks I'm producing. I always write the main drop/piece loop first (dont know why but it happens like that) and it sounds cool and all but I don't know how to introduce it or create a nice build up to it.

This is a good way to write. The drop is often the hardest part to write, and sometimes if you write an intro first, your drop can get brought down by weak musical ideas you used in your intro, if you open drop first then you're free to throw out all your strongest musical ideas straight off the bat.

Darkow wrote:Any suggestions on how you go about building up your tracks?

I know there is no rule for this but im sure there must be some form of composition technique that you can work around that always works?

There's no real composition technique that will 'always work' because all composition techniques require you to pick the right notes before they can create anything interesting. But, here are some compositional ideas and tools to play with that can help give your creativity a bit of a bump:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Call_and_r ... 28music%29 - Call and response - interesting way to write, a lot you can do with it, for instance, you can have 2 melody lines playing off of each other, or alternatively you can call and response using instruments, maybe 4 bars using organic sounds, then 4 bars using synthetic sound. There's a lot to play with here.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Counter_Point - Counterpoint

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modulation_%28music%29 Modulation

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transposition_%28music%29 - Transpositions.

Darkow wrote: Also the feel of most of the loops i create sounds all muddy and doesn't bring that nice swing movement unless I chop up my samples so much it ends up sounding all glitchy,

whats the best way to get that swinging movement while having a consistent bass wobble running over the drum track without cutting up the bass (like tiny gaps in it before the snare) so that you can feel the movement in the loop?

cos as soon as I chop it up it ends up with like hardly any wobble in it and just sounds like glichy random sounds jumping around. i have heard of side-chain compression but any other suggestions?

I think if you want a swing feel the best thing to do is understand exactly what a swing feel is from a rhythmic perspective.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swung_note#Swung_note The swung note is what makes it. If you get that you'll not have problems writing shuffley sounding patterns again.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swing_time#Rhythm Bit of further reading if you want, If you scroll down a little, there's a couple of good examples of well known swing patterns. You'll also see mention of Bernard Purdie, I recommend you check out his tunes too, lots of really shuffley drums, just need to sit down and listen to what's going on.

WOW thanks so mucj for all the links and info!!! SOOOO HELPFULL!!!!