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Posted: Wed Jul 08, 2009 5:21 pm
by kay
dreamizm wrote:
Do you think there is a reason Western Mass Culture (US/UK in particular) has become increasingly 'dumbed-down' throughout the last decades when you would expect it to 'progress' to a more enlightened understanding of life and ourselves as science and technology grows in capability?
I think that when societies have progressed beyond a certain point there's generally a greater desire to be more "inclusive", ie try to involve more people, try to make sure everyone has a basic level of understanding, etc. Now the correct way to do this would be to exert effort to bring everyone up to the level of what at any particular point in time would be considered "above average". This of course results in a moving goalpost, but it would at least be one in the positive direction.
Unfortunately, it's often much easier to dumb things down instead and rationalise it by whatever means to reduce the definition of "average". And so you end up with a downward spiral.
Also, there's the train of thought that stress has to be present at some level to encourage progress. As societies develop progressively more technology, more things are generally provided to them more easily and cheaply. So essentially there is progressively less stimulus to push, to strive, to learn. And society eventually stagnates.
Posted: Wed Jul 08, 2009 11:29 pm
by david
im glad i stumbled on this thread.
has anyone else seen this?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K9DDNCHM ... playnext=1
haven't made time to really research what is being proposed in this film, but its talking about solutions to problems which is interesting.
Posted: Thu Jul 09, 2009 9:41 am
by SK3W3R
secre ninjasvs. the illuminati
we shall win for we are strong GUERILLA WOBBLES, the only reliable audio weapons system
Posted: Thu Jul 09, 2009 11:05 am
by magma
To help infertile couples? Same reason we can make embryos in test tubes and implant embryos in surrogate wombs.
You still need DNA in order to make sperm... children created with this sort of sperm would still have a father and it would still be his sperm.
Advances in fertility science and stem cell research are very likely to one day give you the chance to grow your own replacement organs from your own DNA.... I'm sure the complaints from the willfully ignorant will cease around then.
Posted: Thu Jul 09, 2009 12:35 pm
by karmacazee
Hmmm. 'The Zeitgeist movement' sounds like a lot of idealistic pie-in-the-sky bullcrap to me. Much like the venus project. Oh, lord, they have links to the venus project on their site too.
I swear, if I read about another soppy idealistic mofo who thinks they can create a perfect society by controlling every aspect of my life and packaging it as some alternate system to what we have now I'm going to kick them very very hard in the nuts. (Not aimed at anyone on this forum, aimed at the fuckers who come up with these ideas.)
And I'm sick and tired of the 'Truth movement' 'The zeitgeist movement' and Alex Jones and all his cronies telling me, in the most patronising way possible, to 'wake up and stop being a sheep'. I'm not a fucking sheep, never have been, never will be. They remind me of Goths and Emo's - come and be a part of our anti-conformist movement, open your mind and think exactly the same way that we do. Who's brainwashing who here?
They spout out: "don't believe everything you read!" So why does everyone who subscribes to this stuff believe everything that AJ and his chums say? What makes them so right?
I mean come on, they're having a go at rich powerful people for being elite and secretive, when they do the exact same thing themselves. They pretend to be 'enlightened' and claim to know what's best for everyone. Sound familiar?
I also think that the 'dumbing down' of society is by choice, and not by design. We do it to ourselves. Does our education system discourage reading books? No. Are libraries, museums and universities being forced to close? No, people just stopped going because they'd rather take their kids to see Transformers, because it's easier (although I will agree that a lot of people have been priced out of going to University, which is awful). Does the mass media force us to look at their bollocks? No, we choose to turn the TV on or buy the Sun by ourselves.
Posted: Thu Jul 09, 2009 12:55 pm
by nousd
Posted: Fri Jul 10, 2009 8:34 am
by dreamizm
kay wrote:dreamizm wrote:
Do you think there is a reason Western Mass Culture (US/UK in particular) has become increasingly 'dumbed-down' throughout the last decades when you would expect it to 'progress' to a more enlightened understanding of life and ourselves as science and technology grows in capability?
Also, there's the train of thought that stress has to be present at some level to encourage progress. As societies develop progressively more technology, more things are generally provided to them more easily and cheaply. So essentially there is progressively less stimulus to push, to strive, to learn. And society eventually stagnates.
This would prob tie in with Bread & Circuses argument I guess.
Perhaps the many years post-(World) War,
a comfortable life for many of the masses has led to this stagnation.
Posted: Fri Jul 10, 2009 9:31 am
by bob crunkhouse
hilarious thread.
Posted: Fri Jul 10, 2009 9:44 am
by magma
dreamizm wrote:kay wrote:dreamizm wrote:
Do you think there is a reason Western Mass Culture (US/UK in particular) has become increasingly 'dumbed-down' throughout the last decades when you would expect it to 'progress' to a more enlightened understanding of life and ourselves as science and technology grows in capability?
Also, there's the train of thought that stress has to be present at some level to encourage progress. As societies develop progressively more technology, more things are generally provided to them more easily and cheaply. So essentially there is progressively less stimulus to push, to strive, to learn. And society eventually stagnates.
This would prob tie in with Bread & Circuses argument I guess.
Perhaps the many years post-(World) War,
a comfortable life for many of the masses has led to this stagnation.
I think the "dumbing down" thing is actually probably a bit of a red herring. It's just that there is more of a stage for people from all levels of education and society to get heard/seen/read these days.... previously, for example, the BBC was run by society types speaking the Queens English and brandishing honours degrees from Oxford... comedians came through the Footlights... media was very much geared to the upper (and upper middle) classes.
Now everyone has a stage. YouTube means you don't even have to make a talent scout or TV producer like you, MySpace means if you can market well enough anyone making music in their bedroom/garage can get heard by the whole country.
That's not to say you have to dumb down with it. There is more stuff available right across the board... if you prefer intellectual pursuits then there's no reason you ever need to switch I'm A D-Lister Get Me Paid, Bitch on and you can quite happily still spend your life reading Pinter and listening to Vivaldi... choice is never a bad thing - lazy people that make choices for the wrong reasons are a bad thing.
Posted: Fri Jul 10, 2009 9:53 am
by dreamizm
Magma wrote:
That's not to say you have to dumb down with it. There is more stuff available right across the board... if you prefer intellectual pursuits then there's no reason you ever need to switch I'm A D-Lister Get Me Paid, Bitch on and you can quite happily still spend your life reading Pinter and listening to Vivaldi... choice is never a bad thing - lazy people that make choices for the wrong reasons are a bad thing.
hAHA - bruv you can;t dismiss the relevance of mass culture like that.
Whether you
choose to be part of it or not it 100% has an impact on your life (unless you live in a cave in the mountains and never leave).
There is no question the more commercial forms of media (ITV instead of BBC or Tesco instead of Whole Foods) appeal to a Lowest Common Denominator rather than aspire to something grander
Posted: Fri Jul 10, 2009 10:11 am
by missedthebus
Karmacazee wrote:I swear, if I read about another soppy idealistic mofo who thinks they can create a perfect society by controlling every aspect of my life and packaging it as some alternate system to what we have now I'm going to kick them very very hard in the nuts. ...
...I'm not a fucking sheep, never have been, never will be.
...Who's brainwashing who here?
They spout out: "don't believe everything you read!" So why does everyone who subscribes to this stuff believe everything that AJ and his chums say? What makes them so right?...They pretend to be 'enlightened' and claim to know what's best for everyone. Sound familiar?
Posted: Fri Jul 10, 2009 10:11 am
by missedthebus
Posted: Fri Jul 10, 2009 10:16 am
by gwa
I am terrified no one has posted a word about the man made swine flu. I can only post through my phone so give me some time and I will show you something sickening.
Posted: Fri Jul 10, 2009 10:40 am
by tr0tsky
I was going to get stuck into this debate but actually, y'all know what my conclusions going to be so I'll save us all some time and just get it out with:
COMMUNISM FTW.
Posted: Fri Jul 10, 2009 2:13 pm
by bob crunkhouse
missedthebus wrote:
lol
Posted: Fri Jul 10, 2009 4:34 pm
by kay
tr0tsky wrote:I was going to get stuck into this debate but actually, y'all know what my conclusions going to be so I'll save us all some time and just get it out with:
COMMUNISM FTW.
Posted: Fri Jul 10, 2009 4:39 pm
by hackman
gwa wrote:I am terrified no one has posted a word about the man made swine flu. I can only post through my phone so give me some time and I will show you something sickening.
im interested what you have to say, ive seen some stuff, read an interview transcript ill pm if you want, but cant be bothered to post in this forum for fear of ridicule from wastemen gashmen