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What program do you use?
Do you do all the layering beforehand in some sound/drum editing program?
Or also use "double tracks" with different drums on the sequencer?
I want a drum synthesizer that lets me use layers like Photoshop.

Tips? Mac tips, even better? Thanks in advance.

any good sampler will let you use layers of samples....the mpc for instance.

i use fl studio. normally i use a 'layer channel' then assign 2-4 sampler channels to that layer channel. from there i'll load up a couple of snare/clap/snap sounds that go good together.

from there it's just a matter of fucking with the amp envelopes and filters to get each part of the sound you like. so if you like the attack of a snap, but the tail of a snare you adjust each accordingly.

same goes for any sampler really....................don't know of a drum synth that'll let you do that though.

Thanks, Cynic.

I am using Ableton, can't do that layering with Impulse but I suppose with Simpler? Anyone doing that?

In cubase i assign a few audio channels to a group channel mess around with eq and envelopes, compress them together and use a little reverb then bounce them down to a single hit

Blip wrote:Thanks, Cynic.

I am using Ableton, can't do that layering with Impulse but I suppose with Simpler? Anyone doing that?

don't know about ableton.......do you have battery? you can do it in there too.

I use Guru.

Guru is my friend! Up to 8 layers (That is samples) per pad. Filters and effects for every layer, including 3 aux sends per layer. You can do some crazy layering with that if you like.

My only tips are go searching for drums you like and figure out what part of it you like - The weight, the body tone or the click. Load it in and strip away the stuff you don't need using the filters. If you treat them as a 3 part deal, you can get some great drums.

Sometimes layering in the same frequency is nice, other times it creates messy yuck, but sometimes messy yuck is what you want. Just use your ears. Also, you can pan layers around, which can give you some massive drums.

i pretty much do what forensix does... its a good, open ended way to get what you want. a decent eq helps a LOT too... as does parallel distortion

Very good tips, Cynic and 201, doing some research on them. I have time, as right now not the money...

Thanks a lot.

I alwars put a layer of iceing suger on the top of my snares. For the kick i find ploughmans pickle works wonders. Then cover the lot in reverb.

Blip wrote:I am using Ableton

same boat mate, just started trying to get some sounds out of my computer, but still a newb on all matters.

i guess better get a plug-in for this stuff?
guru sounds cool, or is it overwhelming for a beginner?

metalboxproducts wrote:I alwars put a layer of iceing suger on the top of my snares. For the kick i find ploughmans pickle works wonders. Then cover the lot in reverb.

And your mum's strained vegetables that she passes through her colostomy bag. Ah, bless

Mum too far away, had to do the poor man's layering in Ableton. That's what I have been doing so far:

Created a five track "template" in Ableton. Each track has the Impulse drum machine and assorted effects, delay, filter, EQ, distortion, email address. I add a snare or so to each, go crazy after hearing a loop of PAH....PAH....PAH.....PAH.... for too long and then bounce the five tracks to a single hit. That sounds worse than any of the ones I had in separate.

Sound design! I can do that.

I layer all my beats in the arrangment screen of ableton, effect them and the render them to a single hit or loop.

Its real easy to layer up sounds in ableton.

So far feeling more comfortable with the clips section, but sounds worth trying.

Right, so who wants to write a general tutorial on layering, enveloping etc to get some decent drum hits. Cos right now i am relying on single hits that tend to sound a bit weak. Would be much obliged. Do people tend to layer hats as well?

Drums are like a track's skeleton, i need to get mine sounding a bit less funnybones and a bit more

here's how i do it on ableton:

set up 3 midi channels each with impulse on

have the 2nd two channels recieve midi from the first

have the first slot of each impulse for bassdrums, the second for snares and so on

mess with the inbuilt filters on impulse for each hit so that the samples 'fit' together

use the first midi channel to sequence the drums on...

works well for me because i like to be able to sequence all percussion in one clip

hope this makes sense i'm tired and ill

u have to really think of layering as correctly combining sounds and the best way to do this, regardless of program, is with your ears! So what i mean is giving every piece of drums a purpose in the sound of the composition and not just for noise. Using sidechains, length, pitch, velocity adjustments, and plain instrument selection goes a long way for this. You can also do this with filters, but if your dynamics are good enough you wont need to.

Reason is pretty good for layering because you can create a new drum machine for each layer and sequence that drum machine seperately. I make my drums in reason and use logic for everything else.

if your using ableton, check out drumstack,

http://sonictransfer.com/sonictransfer-drumstack.shtml

http://sonictransfer.com/kick-drum-desi ... rial.shtml

its hard to explain what this does, just read the description,
its not a seperate vst, its changes the way you can use impulse.
try it out, its well worth it


"Why Use DrumStack?

DrumStack is an Ableton Live Rack that allows you to easily layer drum samples and create powerful drum kits. The benefits of using DrumStack are:

* Clean and Tidy. One MIDI channel is used for all of your drum sounds
* Lots of Layers. Up to 8 samples can be layered per drum. This means that you can fill the entire frequency range. For example, your kick drum can fill all the frequencies from lowest sub bass to the highest pops and clicks (and everything in between).
* Powerful Controls. Each of the 8 available drum samples has all of the controls provided by the Impulse Drum Machine. Here are some of the highlights:
1. Sample start. (labeled as Start). This allows you to control where the sample begins playback. Tip: Use it to remove silence from the beginning of a sample.
2. Transposition. (labeled as Transp). This adjusts the playback speed of a sample. Tip: Use it to correct the pitch of bass samples and snare samples.
3. Timestretch. (labeled as Stretch). This changes the duration of the sample without adjusting its pitch. Tip: Use it to elongate cymbal or tom sounds.
4. Soft attack Button. (labeled as Soft). This fades in the sample, removing its attack. Tip: Use it to add only the decay (tail) of a sample without adding its attack (head).
5. Distortion. (labeled as Drive). Turn on distortion by pressing the button labeled Sat and then use this knob to increase the distortion of the sample. Tip: Use this to make a drum sample loud and to increase its harmonics.
6. Filter & Resonance. (labeled as Freq and Res, respectively). Turn on the filter by pressing the button labeled "Filter". Use the dropdown box labeled Mode to choose between 2 types of lowpass, bandpass, or highpass filters, as well as a notch filter. Tip: Use these controls to remove unwanted frequencies from most of your samples. Each drum sample should fill a specific range of frequencies. Once that frequency space has been filled, use the filter to cut out those same frequencies from the remaining samples.
7. Decay. (labeled as Decay). This increases or decreases how quickly a sample fades out. Tip: Use different drum sounds for the head (attack) and tail (decay) or of your drums. Use the Soft Attack Button to remove the head from a drum sound. Use the Decay knob to remove a sample’s tail.
8. Pan (labeled as Pan). This adjust the sample panning left or right. Tip: For a good hiphop / house music sound, pan your snare samples slightly left and right, then pan clap samples wider in the stereo field.
9. Volume (labeled as Volume). This adjusts the volume level of your sample. Tip: Be sure to adjust the volume of every sample so that it sits well in the drum mix.
10. Mute & Solo Buttons (labeled as M and S, respectively). Turn off a sound or single it out. Tip: Use these buttons to determine what characteristics each drum sample is contributing to the overall drum layer.
* Discrete Effects. Each drum has its own discrete signal path. This means that you can easily add reverb, flanges, or any other effects to each drum independently without complicated audio bussing.
* Easy Mixing. Each drum has its own master volume fader, mute, and solo. All of your mixing needs are stored in one place.
* It’s Fast! After you build a new DrumStack drum kit, you simply save a new preset. Aftewards, the drum kit can be quickly recalled from the Ableton Live Library.
* Low CPU Usage. Since DrumStack is composed of Ableton Live’s bulit-in tools, it is extremely CPU efficient (just like Ableton Live).
* Extensible. If you have a knowledge of Ableton Live Racks, you can add as many drum channels as you like."

well that pretty much explains drum layering right there, nice wan... plenty of ways/samplers to do it tho

Blip wrote: I am using Ableton, can't do that layering with Impulse but I suppose with Simpler? Anyone doing that?

Mate - ignore impulse (and simpler to some extent)

Ableton's work flow offers itself brilliantly to manipulating audio in individual channels.

do exactly what Forensix said

Drumtrack is ok - but its pointless when you can already do everything in the sequencer - but you may find it suits you better

...also - use a good eq + compressor - the ones in ableton are not the best