Dubstepforum.com

I watched the El-B interview in CM months ago and from what I recall he was talking about putting a limiter on the top end and compressing the bottom so it squeezes the kick together, how would I do this?

future producer wrote:I watched the El-B interview in CM months ago and from what I recall he was talking about putting a limiter on the top end and compressing the bottom so it squeezes the kick together, how would I do this?

If you want to compress certain frequencies differently than others, you will want to use whats called a multiband compressor. Many multiband compressors have a limiter function built in. I'm going to assume you have a multiband compressor plugin. What you want to do is use two bands in this situation. The first band will extend from the high frequencies (lets say 4000hz) down to something in the vicinity of 200hz (this is by no means a defined value, just a start). Your 2nd band will thus extend from the lowest frequencies (lets say 40hz) up to the 2nd band @ 200hz or whatever the low boundary of the high band was. Each band can be compressed or limited independantly (in a multiband compressor). I'm assuming you know what the settings of a compressor mean, Ratio, attack, release, and threshold. If you don't, the threshold (represented by a negative DB value) represents the volume level which, when reached, will trigger the compression on a given band. The attack is how soon the compression is triggered after a sound trips the threshold, and the release is how long the compressor is active after its been triggered. The ratio is the amount of compression that will be applied (1:1 being no compression). Obviously the values you choose will depend on what your sound is. To achieve what you state, make the ratio for the low end band a value over 1:1, and the high end band 1:1 (no compression). Use the limiter function on the uppermost band, and adjust the threshold of the limiter to achieve the desired amount of volume boost. Remember that limiting happens only when the input gain is higher than the output gain of the limiter. Sorry for being so verbose.

As to whether or not this will do what the magazine claims, I'm not certain that it will.

*Edit* I forgot to add that compressing a sample by definition results in a lower volume for the effected band. Use compressors in conjunction with boosts in gain for that compressor band.

Check out that el b video, OP is specifically asking about a technique mentioned by el b. I didn't understand it when I heard it as well. While el b is the don, I don't know where his technical knowledge is at.

what i think it is he means is, compress youre kick to make it fatter and so you can crank it up volume wise and then limit it so that it doest clip to fuckery with all that boosting you just did......i think

alternatively you can buss your kick to 2 sep busses then filter one to lows one to highs and go from there

use a bigger-sounding kick sample to start with.

and yeah, i tend to get better results w/ big-sounding things (like kicks) if i mult them-- 1 channel hipassed and snappy compression, 1 channel full-range and really fast, wooly compression, mix 'em together and limit.

Do you resample your kick after the processing, or leave the sample alone and keep the fx running?

Sharmaji wrote:use a bigger-sounding kick sample to start with.

and yeah, i tend to get better results w/ big-sounding things (like kicks) if i mult them-- 1 channel hipassed and snappy compression, 1 channel full-range and really fast, wooly compression, mix 'em together and limit.

hmmmm I'm gonna try this one out!

k_k wrote:what i think it is he means is, compress youre kick to make it fatter and so you can crank it up volume wise and then limit it so that it doest clip to fuckery with all that boosting you just did......i think

This is what the OP/vid is getting at, not multiband. Longish attack, smash it, limit for level.

macc wrote:

k_k wrote:what i think it is he means is, compress youre kick to make it fatter and so you can crank it up volume wise and then limit it so that it doest clip to fuckery with all that boosting you just did......i think

This is what the OP/vid is getting at, not multiband. Longish attack, smash it, limit for level.

hmmm when limiting is that taking the same attack time as the compression or is it just set to smash it all?

surely if you have a fairly long attack time on a drum hit, you decrease the tail which makes it seem punchier (emphasizing the transient)

then limiting would just be bringing down the level of the transient to match the level of the tail which is what you started with?

unless the limiting is set to a long attack time too?

will watch the video to try and clear this up

To tell you the truth, I don't know if el b knows what he is talking about... though his productions do speak for themselves, rough and tuff.

But yes, a totally flattened kick where tail and transient are at the same level will sound louder for psychoacoustic reasons.

nowaysj wrote:To tell you the truth, I don't know if el b knows what he is talking about... though his productions do speak for themselves, rough and tuff.

But yes, a totally flattened kick where tail and transient are at the same level will sound louder for psychoacoustic reasons.

Have you or anyone else got a link for the vid?

I'll be sending that loop back across soon btw, had some time to work on it this morning

dope re loop

Link to the thread:

http://www.dubstepforum.com/el-b-produc ... ilit=video

Lets see if I can embed the vid.

lowpass wrote: hmmm when limiting is that taking the same attack time as the compression or is it just set to smash it all?

surely if you have a fairly long attack time on a drum hit, you decrease the tail which makes it seem punchier (emphasizing the transient)

then limiting would just be bringing down the level of the transient to match the level of the tail which is what you started with?

Yes, exactly that

But the two different actions (time constants, ratios) affect the sound differently, and to some extent the distortion of the limiter in the transient stage creates 'faux punch'. It's not actual dynamic punch (big transient) but 'fake' punch from short term distortion.

When I was a nipper and had some time to make fuckin tunes I did this allllllllll the time, especially on 808s

Ha nice one, I actually just managed to find an 808 pack and started playing with it for a house tune so may give this a go.

So this technique is more about imprinting the audio with the characteristics of the compressors + slight compressor distortion?

Depends what you want from it - release time of both stages is the key. It's a good way to fake a bit of punch while using less headroom = more level. And then of course the sustain stage is higher = more power.

Careful you don't overdo it though, I used to Turn your mix down and it sounds.... fat but flat.

There are plenty of multiband processors in general, but I usually want 100% control so I just eq a duplicate and compress that.
However, if you're doing this, make sure that your original is bounced down because plug-in delay compensation isn't always reliable!

It doesn't squeeze the kick together, but that's done in the bus anyways.

listen to macc his tunes with 808s were and still are some of the best ever. him and fanu

deadly habit wrote:listen to macc his tunes with 808s were and still are some of the best ever. him and fanu

oh hell yeah. defunct drums' depression decade ftw. HUGE sounds in the drop there.

nowaysj wrote:Do you resample your kick after the processing, or leave the sample alone and keep the fx running?

yeah I resample kicks