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"Western" nations believe themselves to be less corrupt than undeveloped nations
because of democratic institutions, free press & bodies having oversight etc.
In my experience, this seems to be true.

If, for a moment we can forgo the big conspiracy theories & secret cabals ruling the world,
i.e. fundamental corruption of our nation states & societies
(difficult for some i realize but for the sake of this discussion please restrain yourself),
I'm interested to learn if ninjas have actually experienced corruption in their day to day lives

like a parking inspector taking a bribe,
sexual favours gaining better marks,
making a donation to get a building approval
a crate of beer to overlook petty theft....

imo, these things being mundane & street level,
have a more corrosive effect on my commitment to social equity
than the inaccessible stuff.

what i understand from your post is: let's forget everything really bad so we can focus on some small change because i think bribing the parking agent it's more of a problem than a banker whispering in a president's ear during an official speech, to refer only to stuff we can see with own eyes

You got it Pimp.
Do you understand why i might think it more relevant to us?

Ever bribed anyone yourself?
(not assuming you would)

if you try to demonstrate this habits made their way upwards, look at the history, it's like that since ever, everywhere, and it depends how hungry/greedy the people are and how easy is to get the satisfaction you seek
after western countries contributed massively to world poverty and underdevelopment, i don't think anyone's a virgin
the only difference is some of the bribes in US, UK so forth are sometimes measured in percentages of the national income and are disguised as contracts or stimulus' or corrupted laws

potentially a very interesting thread sd5... let's hope it stays OT

No rush to confession nor knowing of examples,
which is what i'd expect
but i wonder why, say, Britain or USA are not as open to overt corruption
as, say Afghanistan & Indonesia.
Is it a cultural limitation to development in the latter?
Is it a mindset adopted to avoid punishment in the former?

Why can't I feel comfortable with low-level corruption?

Pretty dumb topic maybe but I sense that this form of corruption is increasing
particularly as our cohesive communities deteriorate.

i went to egypt last month... boy..
if you're willing to pay the right price u can do absolutely anything
the corruption money is the way some people survive...
a friend of mine told me a good trick.. if a policeman's bribeable you ask if you can pay an on the spot fine....
apparently it works... I've never tried it though

Why don't we have a system where you survive by paying or taking bribes?
Isn't it natural human behaviour to elicit personal rewards for favours done?

not when it means you're gettin away with murder

sd5 wrote:Why don't we have a system where you survive by paying or taking bribes?
Isn't it natural human behaviour to elicit personal rewards for favours done?

obviously because you can't cut a share of a free and uncontrolled money flow

Humans a greedy creatures - given the opportunity and, especially, the ability for it not to be seen by their judgemental peers, an awful lot will happily be corrupt.

I had an argument with a couple of off duty police officers who were apparently allowed to sit in an area of Regents Park that I had just been told to move from (they offered to find the 'Community Support Officer' a slightly more exciting beat).

I doubt that sort of thing ever really gets punished and it should, IMHO.

Conversely, a friend of mine ended up doing community service for "stealing" old PCs out of the skip at his office (all headed for landfill) and selling them on eBay - that to me seemed like intelligent capitalism and even profitable recycling, but unfortunately, he did it in the 'wrong' way so was deemed corrupt.

I don't think the situation has necessarily got worse or better than it's ever been. Lots of people live their lives looking for ways to bend the rules - fiddle insurance claims, pay the decorator in cash to save him paying tax, watch TV for free over the internet. Opportunities are different than in times past, but I'm not sure if they're "better or worse" and I'm almost certain that it's not "crumbling society".

isn't the whole point of having an accountant to cheat the tax man?

Sorry, when you said corruption crumbling community - I instantly thought DSF.

i spent the stimulus check from bush on weed does that count?

You could argue corruption is everywhere, in some form or another. If you just mean litterally police officers taking bribes ect. i doubt their is too much.

sd5 wrote:Why don't we have a system where you survive by paying or taking bribes?
Isn't it natural human behaviour to elicit personal rewards for favours done?

Surely the term "bribe" naturally implies dishonesty? - honest payment for a favour/object is just the price...

I dj on a popular station
Anybody willing to pay me to play their tunes?

sd5 wrote:"Western" nations believe themselves to be less corrupt than undeveloped nations
because of democratic institutions, free press & bodies having oversight etc.
In my experience, this seems to be true.

If, for a moment we can forgo the big conspiracy theories & secret cabals ruling the world,
i.e. fundamental corruption of our nation states & societies
(difficult for some i realize but for the sake of this discussion please restrain yourself),
I'm interested to learn if ninjas have actually experienced corruption in their day to day lives

like a parking inspector taking a bribe,
sexual favours gaining better marks,
making a donation to get a building approval
a crate of beer to overlook petty theft....

imo, these things being mundane & street level,
have a more corrosive effect on my commitment to social equity
than the inaccessible stuff.

No way man, have you ever travelled in a non-western nation? Everyone can be bought, its a MASSIVE problem in countries (Cambodia being a prime example, having been there myself) that get funding or raise capital yet its all squandered through corruption on EVERY level. Where people struggle to get food daily, corruption will always have a much more corrosive effect than in its relatively isolated occurances in Western countries....

kenya is terrible for it. bribes have a lovely euphemism there, its called a 'kitu kidogo', which means 'a little something'.

so no personal examples at home?
interesting

what about the cash-to-play scenario...would anybody do it?