Dubstepforum.com

Hi, I've been using the forums for a while but never decided to actually make a post!
Anyway here's my situation:
I'm very interested in DJing and possibly producing in the future and have been swinging towards Ableton more and more, I have a decent grasp of the daw but i want to invest in some hardware. The problem is I also love vinyl so i'm going to have to make a choice. It's either I start off with something like a midi controller for use in live 7 or invest in a mixer, turntable and audio interface, possibly using time-coded with another daw but i just cant decide! I'm just wondering if anyone had any thoughts as money isn't really a factor...i know there's a large turntablism culture on here, but really open-ended things like the novation launchpad also interest me. I'd generally be mixing dubstep, some dnb and anything else thats filthy enough for me Just wondering if anyone can give me some advice on where to start or share any experience. Cheers

I'm a bit jealous that money isn't a factor for you.

But seriously, buying 2 tables + mixer + serato or whatever is expensive, but always a good choice. You'll be a better DJ learning on the tables before laptop. I love ableton to death though and like to use both. Really a stylistic choice, both have pros and cons. I'd learn on tables first though.

if you're just starting out and interested in both djing and producing, why not just stick with ableton for a while and learn it in and out? you dont really need a bunch of hardware when youre just starting....have fun with music, spend some time using ableton as a dj instrument as well as a production instrument: vibing with tunes, putting together mixes and blends....and 6 months down the road if youre still convinced you wanna dj then go ahead and get those tables/serato. it's not like yr knowledge of ableton and all it's potential will have been a waste.

I was in a similar position to you, although money was a factor for me. I also love vinyl. Nicked my Dad's old Sony hi-fi with a belt drive turntable and used to chill out listening to records, didn't even attempt to mix on it. Looked into getting a pair of turntables and a mixer. Second hand pair of Technics and an ok mixer, you're going to be looking at around £600 upwards.

Cons:
- they take up a fair bit of space. I'm a student in London and I live in a tiny, shitty house. There's barely enough room for me to do uni work let alone a pair of turntables.
- they weigh a tonne. Last three years I've moved every year, and I don't drive. Multiple bus trips with a deck each time = bollocks.
- vinyl costs a lot. £6.99+ for a 12" or £1.70 for an 320kbps MP3 or £2.70 for a FLAC (at Boomkat etc)
- vinyl takes up space, got to look after it
- if it gets nicked, you're screwed. Insurance companies aren't going to give you much for each record. Again, down to my crap house, might be different for you.

Pros:
- it's vinyl. it's nice.

Looked into timecode vinyl and the only ones that seemed worth it were Serato and Traktor Scratch. Thought Serato was a bit overpriced and preferred Traktor. Again, down to you what you like. But the same old issues with decks taking up loads of my room, which I don't have.

Looked into Ableton, but thought that, for me, it's just too much. Ableton can do some incredible stuff. But starting out mixing, it's going to be completely overwhelming. Also, it seemed all a bit pre-prepared for me, because you have to warp tracks. Track management seemed a bit weird as well, looked like a pain in the arse to organise tracks.

Looked at Traktor Pro, really liked it and it's what I've got now. You get the flexibility of Ableton-style mashups, looping, cue points, 4 decks (are you ***really*** ever going to use more than 4 channels?), but the ease of use of being able to load up a track and play it straight away by beatmatching it in, i.e. no warping beforehand as you'd have to do in Ableton. Music browser is good too, i've got loads of playlists or "crates".

I've got a MacBook that I bought before uni so I use that, with 4gb RAM. All my music is vinyl/cd rips or legally bought high quality downloads. Use a decent soundcard (PreSonus Firebox) and it sounds great. I've got a Vestax VCI-100, does the job for me. Lot of people using/modifying them on http://www.djtechtools.com too. My whole set up can get into a reasonably sized backpack. Don't have to worry about records being nicked, got everything backed up to a external hdd and I'm going to get another one soon to keep at uni. Thinking about getting some kind of drum pad thing to trigger loops, cue points etc but want to keep it simple for now.

Don't worry too much about what you use -p eople will always hate whatever you do, ignore it. I found what is best for me, find out what's best for you. Look in shops, try stuff out. Personally I think take something new and do something exciting with it rather than stick with old stuff, but others will disagree because they prefer vinyl.

I still buy vinyl btw, mainly promos and limited editions that I like to keep in good nic!

Wabberjocky wrote: You'll be a better DJ learning on the tables before laptop.

I'm not sure that's true. I think it's the whole two track only situation and no effects, looping etc that you get yourself into with vinyl. You have to learn how to be good with the minimum amount of equipment, by mixing harmonically, proper eqing, matching phrases - I think that's what makes you good, not the turntables. Beatmatching helps make you better too, I reckon, because you have to listen critically to the music. I learnt to beatmatch using my controller and traktor pro, not vinyl...

sorry, double post

get ableton and a controller! you could later on get serato and some tables but ableton imo is the easiest way to start. the launchpad is funnnnnn

angry wrote: I've moved every year, and I don't drive. Multiple bus trips with a deck each time = bollocks.

ROFLOL that sucks

I dunno, do you want to DJ or produce? From your first post it sounds like you want to DJ and maybe produce later. To me they're entirely different things, although related in dance music culture. Personally, I was a musician first, then producer and then DJ but it seems that many people go the DJ first and then producer route.

I don't know how it is in the UK, but in the US, mad people are selling turntable setups for crazy cheap if you look around. Probably the most expensive thing will be your mixer.

Just follow you heart.

Cheers for the quick replies guys.
I'm still a bit unsure as to what direction im going to go in next but you've all been really helpful
In response to angry, I was actually looking at the vci-100 when you replied...I've used traktor almost as much as live. I've got my tiny korg kontrol, first thing i ever bought, mapped to cue points, looping, Fx etc and it's a lot of fun. So thats another possibility, the thing is I want to be able to build my hardware up, I'd like to use as much hardware and as little mouse clicking as possible. The funny thing is, i'm an impulse buyer so this is unusual for me. I said money wasn't really a factor, I didn't mean I have enough to pick-up a monstrous set-up with little damage to my wallet....but as it stands a vinyl set-up is going to cost me more...particularly in the long run. I think I'm still gonna need some time to think about my next move, I know at the end of the day it's all down to personal taste but I appreciate any more advice or experience you guys can share. Cheers

I want to build my set up too, although I'm going to wait until I feel I've exhausted it, which will take me a while I reckon (have you seen the midi mappings on djtechtools? they're insane!) The great thing about the vci-100 is that at it's most basic level you can take two tracks in Traktor and mix them instantly - no messing about, but there's the potential to do more.

mks wrote:Just follow you heart.

+1. Learn to dj because you want to, for fun and the love of the music. Forget everyone else.

I fully agree with angry. In fact I very recently made a post very similar to this http://www.dubstepforum.com/best-way-to ... 20298.html

As you can see from that thread I knew (and still, if i'm honest know) fuck all about what i was doing and how to get started

now i'm using Traktor 3 and i've pretty much set my heart on a Numark Total Control controller, though the Vestax previously mentioned seems pretty adequate (though i have heard it can lock up and freeze traktor)

definitely go for this set up man, i tried ableton and completely fucked it, just cant get my inexperienced brain around it. I wanna get into the passionate artfag side of dj'ing , and the technology was holding me back

You'd be suprised how cheap you can get a decent vinyl setup these days, I got my first decks and a mixer for £50 second hand (probably a bad example, they sucked) I started DJing with VirtualDJ and a mouse just to get the idea of what I was actually doing then once I decided I liked it I invested in a cheap midi controller. I've always wanted to get a vinyl setup then just slap some timecodes on it but that can be pretty expensive brand new. If you've already got the software for it you should just be able to get a 4in/4out soundcard (I've seen them for around £80) and plug the whole lot into that which should save a couple hundred pounds (this works in VirtualDJ not sure about Traktor) then head on over to ebay and get yourself a decent set of second hand decks, as long as you're looking at some decent equipment it won't matter too much that its used. So yeah you could get yourself a couple of used 1210s, a decent mixer and a timecode setup for <£500.

Hope that helps a little

Get a numark cd3 ... its a traditional mixer with cd players attached, no effects, have to do em in line, but, it works, and becomes a great centerpiece to build out from.

Or, on zzounds.com, I saw a midi contoller that doubles as an analogue mixer... havent played wiht one though, n cant remember the name off hand, look in the dj control surfaes