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I was just wondering if people think its possible to become a big name/ act / getting signed/ having a big hit tune without knowing anything about music. (notes / scales/ music theory and all of that)

I personally think its possible however putting out consistantly good tunes i think would be harder with no musical knowledge. sometimes i feel happy tthat i dont know anything and just fuck around till i find something i like and it sometimes is way different then anything ive heard. and then other times im frustrated with how long it takes me to get something decent because i generally do not know what notes/chords / w/e go together and just press shit till ive "found" something that works. Ive only gotten interested in producing my own music in the last 6 months and have been seriously considering learning piano and want to learn music theory.

What is your experience with the subject?

Just learn, its not hard....

I feel like anyone that doesnt know a bit about theory is just lazy really... you dont gotta be a genious, but, you do have to know something.

Basic A thinks I am lazyyyyy =( lol

Making music without learning music theory is similar to learning a language using your ears only. You'll blatantly get much better if you study it.

Music theory IS the language of music.

daft tnuc wrote:Making music without learning music theory is similar to learning a language using your ears only. You'll blatantly get much better if you study it.

Music theory IS the language of music.

God, can you iagine learning Thai off ears n no back info???

Yes of course. Obviously it will always help, but there's countless people who don't know much in regards to music theory, or even more than the basics of mixing such as equalization or compression that still make amazing tunes. Like you said it might take longer, but there's nothing stopping someone from learning what they want to know. Though if something works for someone, I think they usually stick to that way.

Obviously the style of music comes into play, and with electronic music you often times don't need to know more than "what sounds good". These days with computers and software the same can be said about most styles and genres I think. Someone might not be able to tell you the specific names of the chords they're programming, but they can "hear" them. Like I said though, it will always help.

Yeah, theory and technical knowledge is essentially a load of shortcuts to give you an idea of what's likely to work and what isn't. So if you want some sad sounding chords, you have a basic idea of what's liable to sound good rather than trying every possible combination of notes until you find one that works.

But a) you can still find stuff that works by trial and error, and a lot of people have made great music that way and b) it's important to remember that it's about what might work to get a specific effect and what probably won't work to give a specific effect, not what you should always do and what you should never do. Hence music theory has kept extending over the last 500 years as people find contexts where stuff that was previously considered useless is actually effective.

of course!

it's all about intuition. and you either have that or you haven't. i think a lot of the best music has come from people with a lot of 'ideas' but without any traditional theory knowledge...

having said taht i think technical knowledge (ie, production, rather than scales etc) is pretty mandatory

wormcode wrote:. These days with computers and software the same can be said about most styles and genres I think. Someone might not be able to tell you the specific names of the chords they're programming, but they can "hear" them. Like I said though, it will always help.

This

Experience with music, chords, moods, scales, etc is more useful than abstract theory... burial always says that he doesn't have a clue how el-b makes his drums, yet he clearly understands them more intimately than most tech producers who could replicate them easily

chronicrecords wrote:I was just wondering if people think its possible to become a big name/ act / getting signed/ having a big hit tune without knowing anything about music. (notes / scales/ music theory and all of that)

Nuff big names in rock music don't know any theory, they do it all by ear. So yes you can go places without knowing the ins and outs of theory but it's one of those things I'd recommend having a look into.

if you can do it by ear you might not have what we call "knowledge" but you certainly have talent



learn as you go along. its practically impossible not to.

Yes, it is possible. Even some of the most technical metal bands consist of members who know virtually nothing about theory.

Furthermore, I have no idea why some people are so religious about 'their' way of doing things. If music theory is something you need to learn to make tunes: by all means go ahead. All 'music theory' is, is a description of what people have done musically in the past put on paper.

If you can make a good tune comfortably without having read even the tiniest bit of theory beforehand, who cares? It's the end result that matters, not the way it was created or god knows what and when dealing with something as inherently personal as music, a form of artistic expression, there is no 'right way' or 'wrong way' or 'you've gotta do X to understand Z to make a tune that sounds like Y', there's only what you feel comfortable with doing.

Personally, I understand some basic theory, but when it comes to keys, harmonies and God knows what, I all just do it by ear.

i know plenty of theory, been thinking in terms of scales since i was 10... and i still just fuck around til i find something that sounds good. doesn't make that much of a difference whether you know the stuff or not, as long as you've got some artistic vision behind it. i know guys who are studying music at college and couldn't write a tune or put a beat together if their lives depended on it.

Basic A wrote:Just learn, its not hard....

I hold a doctorate level degree, I did 2 years of college level calc in high school, as dumb as I am, I consider my self to be pretty smart. I've never been able to figure out music theory. It honestly sounds like gibberish to me. Seems as though nothing is consistent. This is this but only if that is that, and that will only be that if those are these. Arghh... Epic fail on my part.

It is hard.

narcissus wrote:i know plenty of theory, been thinking in terms of scales since i was 10... and i still just fuck around til i find something that sounds good. doesn't make that much of a difference whether you know the stuff or not, as long as you've got some artistic vision behind it. i know guys who are studying music at college and couldn't write a tune or put a beat together if their lives depended on it.

I agree, you're either musically talented, or not..

anyone can learn music theory, or at least grasp the basics, if you can do maths at a basic level, you can do music.

Of course it's possible to go anywhere. Everyone knows absolutely nothing at the start! And I think it depends on the type of music you like - maybe more experimental type stuff that focuses on textures and so forth doesn't need any knowledge at all, while knowing how to write an orchestra piece would need you to know quite a bit. You can learn as much as you need to know. And obvisouly there is that space in between which I think a lot of electronic musicians occupy, where they know some theory but not a shitload (obvisously this is a generalisation!).

Having said that, I think learning some music theory will really help. It means that when you think of a bassline or melody or whatever you can plop it down and then focus on making sound awesome instead of spending ages trying to find the right note, I having quite a good melody but there is something slightly wrong with it and you can't figure out how to make it sound "right" to you. It is also great for making multiple parts to your tracks. This is also something I used to struggle with - I would make one bit of the track, and then when I wanted to add another element nothing would fit. With some music theory it becomes much much easier.

And when I say something sounding "right", I don't mean right according to the rules, I mean right according to you. I have a "music theory for dummies" book in which the guy continuously says things like "all songs have a humable melody", and "all melodies finish on the tonic (the main note)". This stuff is obviously crap and is constantly being proved wrong particularly by electronic musicians (yay!). Just leave the baggage that comes with the theory and take what you need.

I think the trouble with theory is that it is often taught in this terrible way - you don't need to know how to read the staff or anything like that to be able to benefit from it. They also start teaching it with crappy boring songs.
The way I have taught myself some is by:
- having a melodica (or keyboard of somesort. midi keyboard is ok if the latency is low, but learning to play on slow midi keyboard would shit me).
- being told what scales and chords are, and how you build one from any note. Being shown the A minor scale (the white keys starting from A) and C major (the white keys starting from C)
- playing around.

The key thing being playing around. Not at the computer. Making silly melodies. going back and reading a little bit more (about the basics).

anyway I guess this has been gibberish really and everyone else has already said it. The "for dummies" books are good, they cut the crap and you can skip to what you want to know.

Just make wobble- problem solved.

I think there's only so far you could go using ears and intuition. Trial and error goes a long way though.

to be honest if ure not doing a dance/electronic related genre then ure pretty much ok(not that i support this)...but when it comes to dance music u need 2 have some sorta knowledge on sound theory or your tunes wll probably never get as far as being played on ure own system...people arent gona wana take on sound that needs 2 much work wen there are people doing it properly in the scene