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difference between low cut and low shelf?
Posted: Sat Sep 04, 2010 5:11 pm
by yummy
Something I've been wondering for a while: what exactly is the difference between a 'low cut' and a 'low shelf' and what's the best way to use each of these different filter types? Also, what's the difference between a 'bell' filter with reduced gain vs. a notch filter?
thanks for the help
Re: difference between low cut and low shelf?
Posted: Sat Sep 04, 2010 5:49 pm
by Echoi
Re: difference between low cut and low shelf?
Posted: Sat Sep 04, 2010 6:14 pm
by yummy
yeah, i've already read that.
"A pass filter attenuates either high or low frequencies while allowing other frequencies to pass unfiltered. Shelving-type equalizers increase or attenuate the level of a wide range of frequencies by a fixed amount."
that's kind of a vague explanation, especially to my noob brain, and it doesn't really answer my question of when to use one vs. the other. i was kinda hoping for something a bit more practical. i'm guessing that pass filters completely remove frequencies above or below the cutoff, whereas shelf filters remove frequencies above or below the cutoff more gradually, rather than completely removing them. is this true?
Re: difference between low cut and low shelf?
Posted: Sat Sep 04, 2010 6:37 pm
by Echoi
Basically shelving filters ignore certain frequencies whilst boosting or cutting others.
Re: difference between low cut and low shelf?
Posted: Sat Sep 04, 2010 6:44 pm
by 3za
a low shelf reduces, or increases low frequency by a set amount of db. so all frequency under the set amount will be change by the same amount of db.
were as low cut (hi-pass) rolls off low frequency, using a db per octive curve, ie 24 db/oct.
it is simple stuff but its a bit hard to explain, so if this don't help you just holla, and i will post up some screen shots.
Re: difference between low cut and low shelf?
Posted: Sat Sep 04, 2010 6:50 pm
by mickledan
like the Q factor?
Re: difference between low cut and low shelf?
Posted: Sat Sep 04, 2010 6:52 pm
by yummy
holla holla holla
if you would be so kind to post some screen shots, or at least elaborate a bit more, that would be wicked
i guess the main thing i'm having trouble getting my head around is when and why would you use one over the other?
thanks for your help 3za!
Re: difference between low cut and low shelf?
Posted: Sat Sep 04, 2010 7:16 pm
by sinehere
Very crude but hopefully you get the idea...
Click me!
Re: difference between low cut and low shelf?
Posted: Sat Sep 04, 2010 7:28 pm
by 3za
Low shelf
Hi-pass (low cut)
Re: difference between low cut and low shelf?
Posted: Sat Sep 04, 2010 7:54 pm
by yummy
so one would use a cut (rather than shelf) if you wanted SOME frequencies to come thru either above or below the cutoff (relative to which type of cut you're using)?
and if a shelf affects all frequencies above or below the cutoff at the same db, wouldn't it better to use a shelf for getting rid of, say, bass frequencies from instruments not primarily sitting in that frequency range - such as with hi hats - to avoid frequency clashing with sub/mid-bass?
sorry, not sure i'm understanding correctly.
Re: difference between low cut and low shelf?
Posted: Sat Sep 04, 2010 8:14 pm
by 3za
yummy wrote:so one would use a cut (rather than shelf) if you wanted SOME frequencies to come thru either above or below the cutoff (relative to which type of cut you're using)?
and if a shelf affects all frequencies above or below the cutoff at the same db, wouldn't it better to use a shelf for getting rid of, say, bass frequencies from instruments not primarily sitting in that frequency range - such as with hi hats - to avoid frequency clashing with sub/mid-bass?
sorry, not sure i'm understanding correctly.
you got it twisted a bit.
when it comes to rolling off low frequencies you would normal use a hi-pass filter, because the lower you go down from the cutoff point the more reduction in db (as you can see the slope in the picture)
where as with the low shelf, you would use when say you have a bass sound that has to much, or to little low end. it works as a control to turn up, or lower the frequencies down their.
hope it is all clear now.
Re: difference between low cut and low shelf?
Posted: Sat Sep 04, 2010 8:22 pm
by Ldizzy
u could also prolly stick it to a sound and play with it for a couple minutes.
turn all the knobs. do A/Bs
could help too...
Re: difference between low cut and low shelf?
Posted: Sat Sep 04, 2010 9:52 pm
by tavravlavish
Ldizzy wrote:u could also prolly stick it to a sound and play with it for a couple minutes.
turn all the knobs. do A/Bs
could help too...
Re: difference between low cut and low shelf?
Posted: Sat Sep 04, 2010 10:02 pm
by yummy
tavravlavish wrote:Ldizzy wrote:u could also prolly stick it to a sound and play with it for a couple minutes.
turn all the knobs. do A/Bs
could help too...
eh, already did this and heard a slight difference, but didn't walk out of the experience any the wiser as far as technical understanding goes. but thanks anyway
Re: difference between low cut and low shelf?
Posted: Sun Sep 05, 2010 3:14 am
by sinehere
Right I've tried to make it as simple as possible:
LOW SHELF / HI SHELF = Increase or decrease volume of selected frequency
LOW CUT = Completely remove all sound below selected frequency
HI CUT = Completely remove all sound above selected frequency
Basically, if you want to say... give a guitar sample more or less bass, you would use a LOW SHELF to increase or decrease the bass frequencies
However if you wanted to remove the bass frequencies you would use a LOW CUT to (as the name suggests) CUT the bass out of the sample...
If you do not understand the difference now, I will photograph myself doing a facepalm.
Anyway I hope you understand
Re: difference between low cut and low shelf?
Posted: Sun Sep 05, 2010 3:13 pm
by yummy
sine.here wrote:Right I've tried to make it as simple as possible:
LOW SHELF / HI SHELF = Increase or decrease volume of selected frequency
LOW CUT = Completely remove all sound below selected frequency
HI CUT = Completely remove all sound above selected frequency
Basically, if you want to say... give a guitar sample more or less bass, you would use a LOW SHELF to increase or decrease the bass frequencies
However if you wanted to remove the bass frequencies you would use a LOW CUT to (as the name suggests) CUT the bass out of the sample...
If you do not understand the difference now, I will photograph myself doing a facepalm.
Anyway I hope you understand
that's about as straightforward as it gets, and exactly what i was looking for. thanks mate
Re: difference between low cut and low shelf?
Posted: Sun Sep 05, 2010 3:42 pm
by therapist
sine.here wrote:Very crude but hopefully you get the idea...
Click me!
Fucking lol at that. Perfect explanation, just funny.
Re: difference between low cut and low shelf?
Posted: Sun Sep 05, 2010 4:03 pm
by yummy
sine.here wrote:Very crude but hopefully you get the idea...
Click me!
hah, didn't realize you wrote in explanations to the side. thought it was just a visual representation....guess i should've clicked as per you telling me to do so
either way thanks man i appresh you helping
Re: difference between low cut and low shelf?
Posted: Sun Sep 05, 2010 7:14 pm
by Ldizzy
yummy wrote:tavravlavish wrote:Ldizzy wrote:u could also prolly stick it to a sound and play with it for a couple minutes.
turn all the knobs. do A/Bs
could help too...
eh, already did this and heard a slight difference, but didn't walk out of the experience any the wiser as far as technical understanding goes. but thanks anyway
yeah sometimes reading gives a crazy quantum leap. god bless DSF
Re: difference between low cut and low shelf?
Posted: Sun Sep 05, 2010 8:27 pm
by staticcast
sine.here wrote:Right I've tried to make it as simple as possible:
LOW SHELF / HI SHELF = Increase or decrease volume of
---> the stuff below/above the <--- selected frequency
LOW CUT = Completely remove all sound below selected frequency
HI CUT = Completely remove all sound above selected frequency
Basically, if you want to say... give a guitar sample more or less bass, you would use a LOW SHELF to increase or decrease the bass frequencies
However if you wanted to remove the bass frequencies you would use a LOW CUT to (as the name suggests) CUT the bass out of the sample...
If you do not understand the difference now, I will photograph myself doing a facepalm.
Anyway I hope you understand
fixed
otherwise correct
