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yo i was just curious - do a lot of you guys regularly practice arranging either by:

1. using other songs as a template for your own work (ie, using the arrangement of another producers song as a rough template for creating something with your own sounds)

2. recreate a piece entirely.


i regularly have a go with trying to recreate a synth sound, or sample chops, but i can't say i've ever tried writing a song based off another's template. i've been focusing quite hard on sound design and feel like i need to step my arrangement game up.

i know theres been some other threads on arrangement ideas, so i will check those. if you guys have any other tips, please post!

got a secret for you: most edm follows the same rough arrangement patterns, usually either progressive or pop song style. observe typical song progressions, you don't need to copy anything. now how you get creative with the arrangement while still loosely following the archetypes is what will set you apart.

Recessive Trait wrote: now how you get creative with the arrangement while still loosely following the archetypes is what will set you apart.

this is the challenge, structure is probably my weakest point.

i use almost the same arrangement template in all my dubstep songs
and it works

Recessive Trait wrote:got a secret for you: most edm follows the same rough arrangement patterns, usually either progressive or pop song style. observe typical song progressions, you don't need to copy anything. now how you get creative with the arrangement while still loosely following the archetypes is what will set you apart.

yeah, maybe i'm looking too far into it.

obviously it's about creativity, what you're doing with the arrangement. but i think having a solid foundation of the rules and archetypes, as you say, of composing will provide the avenue for one to maximize that creativity.....much like jazz musicians, you have to learn the language a bit to really focus your creativity. learn the rules before you break 'em sorta thing

ha, it's not exactly a secret for anyone that straightforward edm is straightforward. i'd be much more interested in studying arrangement from certain african musicians (konono no1, or musicians of jajouka, or something that's not so straightforward.

dubstep is a form of popular music after all , like blues or rock and roll it got a very rigid structure and sound , and TEMPO

Everything is pretty much multiples of 4.

32 bar intro
16 bar break and build up
32 bar verse (drop and main section)
32 bar variation of verse
16 bar bridge
Repeat

It's usually just what feels right man. Don't look into it too hard.
If you want something weird in one part, do it

charlemagne wrote:1. using other songs as a template for your own work (ie, using the arrangement of another producers song as a rough template for creating something with your own sounds)

Yeah this. But tunes create their own arrangement. Just listen to your tune and you can often work out what would be logical to come next. I.e, a second drop, a bridge, a breakdown, etc.

Ya. There are no rules or anything. You could make a 12 min. progressive epic if ya like. I just find that I usually keep my stuff in "pop" format. IDK why, it's just the way I do things. Also, when DJ'ing, and that's many people will be doing w/ your electronic song, it's hard to mix when there's all sorts of crazy transitions and weird time signatures. Same goes for people who are dancing to your music. It may affect how people like your stuff.
I like it when people like my stuff. Feels good man.

Theo Void wrote:Everything is pretty much multiples of 4.

32 bar intro
16 bar break and build up
32 bar verse (drop and main section)
32 bar variation of verse
16 bar bridge
Repeat

thats like an 8 minute song right there!

have a go at recreating a few songs you like. after 5 or so, you'll be way ahead of where you were before and you'll finish your original songs more often.

32 bars at 140 bpm is about 34 sec.

Theo Void wrote:32 bars at 140 bpm is about 34 sec.

you sure? i thought it was about 54.869 seconds

Theo Void wrote:32 bars at 140 bpm is about 34 sec.

Its around 55 seconds. Havent you seen the comments on UKF videos? "Drop like a B0:55 xD"

symmetricalsounds wrote:

Recessive Trait wrote: now how you get creative with the arrangement while still loosely following the archetypes is what will set you apart.

this is the challenge, structure is probably my weakest point.

You aren't alone. 99% of the stuff that turns up in the dubs forum is really poorly structured I find. It's as though the people making tunes don't listen to dance music and/or haven't been to a club in their life because as Recessive says, it's pretty straightforward stuff.

No Im not sure! Its somewhere in the range of 30-55 seconds, just a quick guess

I think it is always a good idea to reference a tracks arrangement,i have a thing where i try to make the second drop heavier then the first now and always try to add some sort of bridge before a breakdown just to give the track more structure.I tend to find the more interesting the arrangement the longer i will stay listening.Suppose its personal preference really to how you want to arrange but keeping the listener interested is something i think you should aim for unless making club bangers then does it really matter because chances are the dj won't play the whole track anyway.
Also another thing i think is once you have a way you like to lay out your basic arrangements then start messing with the size of the different sections,most my track have a 32 bar intro with a break before the drop but i have done a few recently where its 16 bars then the drop and currently working one now where the intro is 64 with a really long build,i'm bringing in different elements build,what i have found is doing it like that is very difficult to continue with the anticipation of the drop but it is a challenge that i am enjoying.