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Some little beginner tricks

Posted: Fri Oct 29, 2010 9:07 am
by BassSaber
As you can see, I'm relatively new to the Dubstepforum and one could say even newer to dubstep, I had only really paid attention to the genre at about halfway through this year. I've been classically trained and this from a certain point of view can be detrimental as well as helpful - though I've got the theoretical and musical knowledge, it can be difficult for me to think in different ways and I find I tend to think in certain, "schooled" ways. Not helpful at all to dubstep, but I find the genre refreshing as it lets me break some rules, so to speak.

I am trying to expand my horizons in dubstep as it can be difficult for me to make, especially trying to make filth as an amateur producer. Using FL Studio, I've made slow progress due to balancing out writing music alongside all my other commitments but I want to focus more on my music now due to some rocky bumps in my life.

Here are some things I've learnt on the way while learning dubstep, and while I'm sure someone will come to refute me, these are just my own thoughts, of an amateur, and perhaps less than amateur, producer.

- I managed to make a very cool, almost talking wobble using NI Massive. Set Osc 1 to Screamer, detune to 17, Osc 2 to Dirty Throat at 12, Osc 3 at Screamer at 24, pass through Filter 1 using Scream. Then assign 5 LFO to the Cutoff, set Curve 1 to Triangle and Curve 2 to Sawtooth. Then assign the synth to a channel, set Drive to 3.7 dB, keep Bit-depth at 24 bits, and Downsample to 17. You should have a pretty cool "Yah Yah" bass, from there you can feel free to modify it further, I find using Camelphat can make it even more powerful.

-I am still extremely useless at making basses however. Although I can make what I would call a mediocre wobble, combining them for me is rather difficult. In keeping the focus on the wobble for the whole part of the song especially, I still need to learn how to make a bass that is enjoyable to listen to for 3:00 or longer. To help keep interest, I try to shake things up a bit, adding and taking out elements as I go. It's often the subtle parts that go unnoticed, like little rushes, the slight clang of a cymbal etc. Those are very important, also consider other percussions like tambourines, shakers etc. I've found that some songs I've done need a little high part, whether it be a high-pitched click or Arpeggiator, or a sampled film. It's impossible for me to make a song where the main part of it is the wobble!

-Also, a little trick for making cool rushes, is reversing the waveform of a cymbal sound or glass break. It's under channel settings, in Precomputed effects, simply click reverse. My friend made a cool snare by having a reversed snare as the first part before the regular snare as the second.

-Never underestimate the power of delay. It's useful in echoing hits, vocal samples, etc, but something it could be cool for is drums. A sudden drum break, punctuated by delay, adds so much depth to a song. Reverb is big as well, but I only really use it for my snares.

-I've never really combined several snares/basses together hitting as one. I usually use several powerful kick/snare samples, and put Maximus on them, selecting the preset "Punchy Drums".

-I've found it difficult automating the wobble as well, I don't really enjoy using Fast LP or x3 Osc either. To counteract this I actually clone several different channels with different wobbles. Dunno if that's good but that's what I do!

That's all for now, the only other thing to say is practise and experiment, analyse your favourite songs and try to break down what's going on. It's something i've been neglecting, otherwise I could be so much better by now, don't get disheartened either!

Peace everyone

Re: Some little beginner tricks

Posted: Fri Oct 29, 2010 9:13 am
by vviiper
Nice post.

Never be affraid of experimenting also, and trying out weird audio experiments. You sure can learn a lot.

Re: Some little beginner tricks

Posted: Fri Oct 29, 2010 11:19 am
by jaydot
Some nice bits of info there, learned some new things myself and I'm not strictly a beginner anymore! :D:

Re: Some little beginner tricks

Posted: Fri Oct 29, 2010 12:27 pm
by Kasshern
Nice post thanx for the advice!

Re: Some little beginner tricks

Posted: Fri Oct 29, 2010 1:04 pm
by Endur
Hmm... this is relevant to my interests.
Another fairly new producer to dubstep with some background knowledge creating music. Although I recently made the switch from FL to Reason, I'm going to try and transfer your ideas over to Reason, see if I can benefit from them. Thanks for the tips, I have been experimenting with the deconstruction of some of my favorite tunes to give tracks of my own some guidance so try to cease neglecting that since I can already notice it benefiting my structure.
I have also found that creating a great snare can be accomplished in many ways. Before any effects have been applied I find it very beneficial to construct a snare out of 2-3 snare samples and a clap. It could just be personal preference, but I'm finding that with a very strong kick snare combination it's easier to expand upon with basses, fx, wobbles, etc.
Also, in reference to your dislike for Fast LP, I feel your pain. While I was using FL studio, I found this effect really limited and next to impossible to use to get what I was looking for. I'm sure there are better ways of creating LFO altering wobbles in FL, so look around for them, but for me, the switch to reason was able to open more horizons as far as automating.

Re: Some little beginner tricks

Posted: Fri Oct 29, 2010 1:18 pm
by paravrais
No offense, but like, if your so new to producing and admit that you know very little then why are you trying to give advice already? Especially on a production forum :\ I'd seek others advice for a while before trying to give it.

Most of what you've said is obvious stuff you learn in the first couple of weeks and the rest is either poor practice or very long ways of going about things..

"Reverb is big as well, but I only really use it for my snares." - That's especially worrying, each to their own I guess but subtle reverb throughout a track can really help space out a mix.

EDIT: While I'm here I may as well be helpful about it, in a similar vein to the reversing snares thing if you add a nice reverb tail to a cymbal then reverse it, cut the reverb off and then lead the reverb tail running in reverse into the dry cymbal hit it makes a nice effect. Say when you have a drop and there's a big crash on the first kick it beefs up the drop a bit.

Re: Some little beginner tricks

Posted: Fri Oct 29, 2010 3:19 pm
by -[2]DAY_-
BassSaber wrote:Reverb is big as well, but I only really use it for my snares.
BassSaber wrote:a little high part, whether it be a high-pitched click or Arpeggiator, or [...]
surely you verb these bits as well, no?

BassSaber wrote: -I've never really combined several snares/basses together hitting as one. I usually use several powerful kick/snare samples, and put Maximus on them, selecting the preset "Punchy Drums".
I recommend trying out layering. but I'll bet once you get the hang of layered drums, you won't need a maximizer for punch anymore (i dunno what maximus is, assuming here).
Besides filling out frequency ranges, you can vary the amount sent to your snares' verb, so one's wetter, one's dry. Makes for some cool results.

Re: Some little beginner tricks

Posted: Fri Oct 29, 2010 6:35 pm
by Endur
-[2]DAY_- wrote:Besides filling out frequency ranges, you can vary the amount sent to your snares' verb, so one's wetter, one's dry. Makes for some cool results.
Seeing as this thread's purpose is to benefit beginners (which i am one of), can someone go into more detail for me what wet/dry basically is. On various synthesizers, effects, etc there is usually knobs for dry and wetness and besides playing with them just a little im not entirely sure what it means and tend to steer clear from using them. Prob a pretty rookie question but i gotta know ahha.

Re: Some little beginner tricks

Posted: Fri Oct 29, 2010 7:00 pm
by bRRRz
Endur wrote:
-[2]DAY_- wrote:Besides filling out frequency ranges, you can vary the amount sent to your snares' verb, so one's wetter, one's dry. Makes for some cool results.
Seeing as this thread's purpose is to benefit beginners (which i am one of), can someone go into more detail for me what wet/dry basically is. On various synthesizers, effects, etc there is usually knobs for dry and wetness and besides playing with them just a little im not entirely sure what it means and tend to steer clear from using them. Prob a pretty rookie question but i gotta know ahha.
The "dry" signal is the signal without the effect added to it and the "wet" signal is the signal with the effect.
The dry/wet knob regulates how much of the effect is mixed into the signal basically.

Re: Some little beginner tricks

Posted: Fri Oct 29, 2010 7:03 pm
by glottis5
Endur wrote:
-[2]DAY_- wrote:Besides filling out frequency ranges, you can vary the amount sent to your snares' verb, so one's wetter, one's dry. Makes for some cool results.
Seeing as this thread's purpose is to benefit beginners (which i am one of), can someone go into more detail for me what wet/dry basically is. On various synthesizers, effects, etc there is usually knobs for dry and wetness and besides playing with them just a little im not entirely sure what it means and tend to steer clear from using them. Prob a pretty rookie question but i gotta know ahha.
it refers to the percentage of the signal that's being affected by the effect

Re: Some little beginner tricks

Posted: Fri Oct 29, 2010 7:42 pm
by Endur
bRRRz wrote:The "dry" signal is the signal without the effect added to it and the "wet" signal is the signal with the effect.
The dry/wet knob regulates how much of the effect is mixed into the signal basically.
Ahhh, it all makes sense now haha.
Yeah I guess the only way I would do things such as balancing out the effect would be if it had a drive or attack slider, but yeah this will help quite greatly, thanks a lot man.

EDIT: Was wondering if there was basically a Q&A thread stickied somewhere for beginners. You know just because I run into questions all the time and i wouldn't wanna be making new threads every time I needed something answered.

Re: Some little beginner tricks

Posted: Fri Oct 29, 2010 8:48 pm
by antics
You've seen the bible right?

Re: Some little beginner tricks

Posted: Sat Oct 30, 2010 3:25 am
by BassSaber
paravrais wrote:No offense, but like, if your so new to producing and admit that you know very little then why are you trying to give advice already? Especially on a production forum :\ I'd seek others advice for a while before trying to give it.

Most of what you've said is obvious stuff you learn in the first couple of weeks and the rest is either poor practice or very long ways of going about things..

"Reverb is big as well, but I only really use it for my snares." - That's especially worrying, each to their own I guess but subtle reverb throughout a track can really help space out a mix.

EDIT: While I'm here I may as well be helpful about it, in a similar vein to the reversing snares thing if you add a nice reverb tail to a cymbal then reverse it, cut the reverb off and then lead the reverb tail running in reverse into the dry cymbal hit it makes a nice effect. Say when you have a drop and there's a big crash on the first kick it beefs up the drop a bit.
I totally get what you're saying, bro, and I am the first to admit my production skills are lacklustre in comparison for what they need to be especially in dubstep. I still consider myself a musician first and a producer second. However, I've loitered around this forum for a little while now, and I just felt I just wanted to contribute in some way using my own experience of producing dubstep, knowing that there are probably other beginner ppl coming through this forum who might benefit from what I've learnt and perhaps bypass several idiotic moments I've had myself. This is really just stuff I've learnt on the way, and maybe someone else will benefit from what I've done, as I've said.

Furthermore, even the most obvious things can be quite opaque, and I admit I've had several facepalm moments when something blaringly obvious has given me difficulty.

The reverb thing is my personal preference to be honest. I can understand where for some songs you need plenty of reverb, however, I dislike it where you literally drown your whole song in it, in my opinion it can be rather muddy. So I try to limit myself using it, the most I'll add to a high part is a slight bit of reverb, although I'm a big fan of delay.

However that's not a rule, because if something calls for more reverb I will definitely use it.

Peace bro

Re: Some little beginner tricks

Posted: Sat Oct 30, 2010 4:41 am
by Endur
antics wrote:You've seen the bible right?
Yeah, although i probably didn't look much into as I should've.
I'll give it more than a glance though cause I'm sure if I practice some sort of patience and actually go through the majority of it, i will benefit.
I'll research what I can, refer to the bible and forum search for solutions if necessary. I'll only post if all else fails and save the community's time as well as prevent myself from looking like a noob ahah.

Also,
- BassSaber - I respect what you are doing, it's all preference and any advice, from a developed dubstep producer or a beginning one, is well appreciated. Although it's great to get advice from one with loads of experience, there's nothing wrong with sharing amongst people at a similar stage so thanks for the input.

Re: Some little beginner tricks

Posted: Sat Oct 30, 2010 4:53 am
by AL4228
vviiper wrote:Nice post.

Never be affraid of experimenting also, and trying out weird audio experiments. You sure can learn a lot.
That's 90% of dubstep :) Sooo true :D: