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Yes you've heard of harmonic mixing, but are you on board yet?
Here is the history and application in a nutshell. Every DJ and even every producer should understand harmonic mixing. You can incorporate the circle of fifths in your compositions!
http://decklyn.com/dublog/2010/12/harmo ... ext-level/

very interesting read! i saw the wheel when i was last buying from chemical recs, and didnt take much notice of it, some of the tunes they recommended to mix together i thought would sound terrible, but i have a better understanding of it now, deffinatly going to give it a go when i get in from work! <ok>

Glad it was helpful

Memorized this as a DJ, never knew wtf I was doing with it, but it works out now that I produce, because I always know whatll work in my melodic oriented stuff, still not the slightest clue why, but it works.

In before kai or someone puts this into sensible terms? or hopefully.... sorry op you use to many adjectives.

1A and 2A have only 1# or 1b difference to the scales are more closely related - only one note will be different between the scales.
Also the 5th is the most pleasing transition to the ear.
I updated the post to include this.

Thanks,

Guess it's somethign you take for granted if you began music with studying an instrument/music before mixing/digital production... Never appreciated that before, not being ignant but stuff like the circle of fifths becomes basic vibes. Don't over complicate things though, one great example is to get your keyboard, start on note A, then hit all the white keys until the next A. Do it several times. Then, start on note C and go along all the white keys to the next note C. That's what the circle describes; going from A minor to C major and they will work together. (noticed it's getting a bit more complicated now, seems quite intellectual, not quite worth stroking a beard though when you can just say 'hang on they're just using the same fucking keys, of course it'll work'). To fully digest this, then you must figure out why the same notes -can be said- to generate these relative scales. Simplify it. One parameter of a scale is time, the other could be said to be pitch- like any journey, the vibes from the segments of the journey describe the whole journey (i.e. in what order the intervals are encountered, despite both scales sharing them. Could it be that the more minor aspects of A minor are emphasised because of the path in which they occur, and vice versa... Still not worthy of beard stroking, keep it fucking simple. The beard stroking comes into the total interactions that actually determine the tonic (overall sound) and thus, if you'd say :

"hey that's C major"


Hey this begins in A minor


They're using the same keys, but elicit such a differing viiiibe, and that's the sperm ridden money shot of music

Anyway noticed a few of you enticed by synaesthetics, may seem a crazy leap, but later on I'll try to scan some pages from an art book on revelations the Pre-Raphaelite movement studied, is highly transferable to this, using colour as an analogy amongst contrast etc

great response I wish I had more classical training - I have years of training without much theory

BLAHBLAHJAH wrote:
They're using the same keys, but elicit such a differing viiiibe, and that's the sperm ridden money shot of music

that's because the C major scale starts off with C and A minor starts off with A. Same notes in the scales, but they don't start or end in the same place. A totally different journey (to use your heady language)...So simple, but most people don't bother with theory starting off because it's so dry.

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I don't even really want to get into this. I have argued with one of the developers of this system before heheh. But most people that use this system don't actually listen to the blends they make. Just blindly trust the software and wheel. It is evident by their mixes. To my ears keys and scales can't usually compliment each other when forced on top of each other but rather compliment when played in succession. That's what a lot of people don't seem to get. Sometimes it works but it's a bit of a crap shoot. I have found more complimentary blends by drawing tunes by intuition rather than this paint by numbers system. To each their own.

abZ wrote:I don't even really want to get into this. I have argued with one of the developers of this system before heheh. But most people that use this system don't actually listen to the blends they make. Just blindly trust the software and wheel. It is evident by their mixes. To my ears keys and scales can't usually compliment each other when forced on top of each other but rather compliment when played in succession. That's what a lot of people don't seem to get. Sometimes it works but it's a bit of a crap shoot. I have found more complimentary blends by drawing tunes by intuition rather than this paint by numbers system. To each their own.

I agree that there may be a potential pitfall if noobs mix only by key and ignore impactfulness but if a tool is available you're doing yourself a disservice to not at least see what your own results are. If you take care, iether way you will have an impactful performance. However I'm quite confident that if you actually take the time to try incorporating some keymatching into your play at home that you will be very impressed not because you will find good blends, but because the blends that you had found that were good are actually key matched. You're doing it and you don't realize it very likely - the tunes you mashup are probably in key. This is just flipping your perspective to give you more information - it's another tool. You still need to prep to find the good mixes and the apps that find the keys are not perfect anyways so you've gotta prep!! At one point in time all vinyl DJ's laughed at people using CDs etc but I think we're coming to terms with employing technology in our mixes - the bar is rising and better blends are demanded of us.

decklyn wrote:

abZ wrote:I don't even really want to get into this. I have argued with one of the developers of this system before heheh. But most people that use this system don't actually listen to the blends they make. Just blindly trust the software and wheel. It is evident by their mixes. To my ears keys and scales can't usually compliment each other when forced on top of each other but rather compliment when played in succession. That's what a lot of people don't seem to get. Sometimes it works but it's a bit of a crap shoot. I have found more complimentary blends by drawing tunes by intuition rather than this paint by numbers system. To each their own.

I agree that there may be a potential pitfall if noobs mix only by key and ignore impactfulness but if a tool is available you're doing yourself a disservice to not at least see what your own results are. If you take care, iether way you will have an impactful performance. However I'm quite confident that if you actually take the time to try incorporating some keymatching into your play at home that you will be very impressed not because you will find good blends, but because the blends that you had found that were good are actually key matched. You're doing it and you don't realize it very likely - the tunes you mashup are probably in key. This is just flipping your perspective to give you more information - it's another tool. You still need to prep to find the good mixes and the apps that find the keys are not perfect anyways so you've gotta prep!! At one point in time all vinyl DJ's laughed at people using CDs etc but I think we're coming to terms with employing technology in our mixes - the bar is rising and better blends are demanded of us.

Yes- last summer when I was experimenting with mashups the best ones that I could come up with matched in key and time sig, but not necessarily tempo (BPM).

When I got cocky and tried to do the "paint by key signature" I ended up with a load of garbage. At least I still like about 3/14 tracks I did. It was also interesting to see how many melodies are recycled. One that comes to mind is Borgore's Ina trouble and Dr. Dre's still dre.

aBZ - I appended a word of warning to the article because I think that this is definitely a watch out and I do agree.
I work with a guy who has his masters in Music Technology and he did his thesis on key detection in tracks. He's a big proponent - I read his thesis today on the theory and how detection software works - it was pretty cool.

You may find that our online database (www.camelotsound.com) is a perfect resource for mashups, because it contains >60,000 musician-keyed records, which are searchable with various filters. If you would like free access to this work-in-progress harmonic mixing database, please email camelot@gte.net.

Umm I actually do key match. I used to figure out the keys by ear and I would only match exact key and tempo but it made me a worse dj. Now I try to avoid clashing instead and this allows me to avoid too much pre planning but what I was trying to explain was that I end up finding key matches by intuition anyway. I dont want to say by accident because it's not.

decklyn wrote:aBZ - I appended a word of warning to the article because I think that this is definitely a watch out and I do agree.
I work with a guy who has his masters in Music Technology and he did his thesis on key detection in tracks. He's a big proponent - I read his thesis today on the theory and how detection software works - it was pretty cool.

It probably works better on pop music than bass music because I tried it a few times with dnb and dubstep and the results were almost across the board incorrect. Maybe I will experiment some more though.

Make sure your key detection app is capable. Busted Crunk and Pinball =
Rapid evolution 2 is free and seems to do ok:
total songs: 64

MIXMEISTER 5:
32 correct (50%)
9 compatible (64% correct or compatible)
23 incorrect (36%)

RAPID EVOLUTION 2.2.10:
34 correct (53%)
15 compatible (77% correct or compatible)
15 incorrect (23%)

mixed in key is worth the money from my experience with it but I havn't tried any free apps.

abZ wrote:

decklyn wrote:aBZ - I appended a word of warning to the article because I think that this is definitely a watch out and I do agree.
I work with a guy who has his masters in Music Technology and he did his thesis on key detection in tracks. He's a big proponent - I read his thesis today on the theory and how detection software works - it was pretty cool.

It probably works better on pop music than bass music because I tried it a few times with dnb and dubstep and the results were almost across the board incorrect. Maybe I will experiment some more though.

I'd bet that a lot of dubstep (i'm not so familiar w/dnb) producers use a lot of accidentals.

even the grimey tunes mix. If the mode is different mixed in key will say 3a and 4a
check it - 3 tunes harmonically mixed - cut out of a live set: http://decklyn.com/dublog/wp-content/up ... e-Drop.wav
(cracks is a little off the grid but you get the point - this would go off live)

abZ wrote:finding key matches by intuition anyway. I dont want to say by accident because it's not.

the best way to do it without a doubt.
if you buy your vinyls and get to know the tunes youll know whats going to work. works perfect in the club too: you start off with 3-4 tunes planned in advance, watch how the crowds liking it, and then roll from there on instinct.