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Right, this question has been posted many times I'm sure, so I will try and make it more specific, and less generic.
Basically, trying to choose a DAW, really love music (mainly dubstep, but play guitar, so would like to record also).
Got the fruity loops 10 demo first, it wasnt bad, kinda easy to get used to, but plugins/vsts don't seem as good as others? Maybe that's just me. It is certainly cheaper, and I know alot of fairly big names use it. Also seems kinda basic, and for actual PRODUCTION of music (i.e. mastering) seems lacking all the features?
Next was Reason 5 demo. Found this quite difficult to use and get my head around (especially compared to FL). Quite nice plugins/vsts, liking thor quite a bit and the kong drum machine.
Yet to try cubase 6, but looking at videos, plugins/vstis seem slightly lacking?
Sonar X1 producer seems fairly well balanced, but no demo thus far
Ableton I'm not too sure of and pro tools, maybe a bit too advanced?

I know people say it is all up to the person themselves about which one to get, and there is no real "best" DAw for dubstep, but any opinions, contributions would be really appreciated! Also any I have missed out that are worth looking at please mention.

Cheers!

First of all, welcome!

I use FL right now, and it doesn't lack in terms of abilities, I can achieve anything Logic / Cubase can, may it be through another route and sometimes harder, I am still able to get the same results.

Thing is with DAW, it's all up to your preference, best bet is to give them all a try for a short moment, and see which one really suits you, I can tell you that Pro Tools is probably not your thing, as it's mainly directed towards recording/bands.

Also, you shouldn't worry about mastering features, this is usually done in a neutral acoustically-treated environment, with high precision full range monitors, which cost a pretty penny. So it's best to leave that to a professional until you've got the tools needed.

Hope that clears things up for you!

FL Lacks no features, you dont know what your on about, and the plugins are as good as any other additive synths, the limiter sucks, but other then that, it comes with some above-averagely good plugins too, like the reverb's (sound sex), and the LovePhilter...

You should really learn what all the plugins do and how to work the software before you decide its not capable.

if you liked reason and want to record too. you could get the reason and record combo which act as 1 program and is a beast.

keep in mind that reason/record does not support vst's so you can only use reason's plug ins. which is fine for me cuz there fucking amazing. plus its stable as fuck and very cpu efficient.

if you want to use external vst's (mind you these can cost a lot) then id suggest FL10 or ableton. the stock plugins are pretty good in both and u could buy more eventually.

seems like you liked the way the workflow of FL10 was. if it was easy for you to get used to maybe u should get that. like i said u can replace the plugins you dont like eventually by buying different ones 1 by 1 if money is an issue.

i have to recommend ableton, as that's what i have the most experience on. FL is a good program and you really can do anything with it. as for reason, why buy reason and record, when you can just rewire reason into ableton or another daw? in my opinion, buying reason is like buying a suite of plugins, damn good ones - personally though, i would focus on getting a daw and getting used to it before you go and start buying the bells and whistles.

i have to stand by my opinion: Ableton if you use windows, Logic if you have a mac. AGAIN: you can do anything with any daw, it's really just finding one that suits your workflow.

bassinine wrote:i have to recommend ableton, as that's what i have the most experience on. FL is a good program and you really can do anything with it. as for reason, why buy reason and record, when you can just rewire reason into ableton or another daw? in my opinion, buying reason is like buying a suite of plugins, damn good ones - personally though, i would focus on getting a daw and getting used to it before you go and start buying the bells and whistles.

i have to stand by my opinion: Ableton if you use windows, Logic if you have a mac. AGAIN: you can do anything with any daw, it's really just finding one that suits your workflow.

not for me. reason and record is more than enough to crank out tunes. jakwob uses reason and record and thats it. along with many other successful artists. if they can make their tunes with it, i wouldnt underestimate it.

and if hes using FL10, then he has windows. so imo look at FL, ableton, and reason for a while before making your decision. any of them will allow you to make good tunes. its just up to you to do it. and its up to you to see which program works best for you.

Try out Presonus Studio One, it's actually quite good

So basically you've tried a few out and haven't really clicked with any so you just want our personal preferences?

Gotta say for me it has to be Ableton. It ticks all the right boxes and the bonus ones you didn't even know you wanted too. There are some heavy contenders though. FL 10 looks fucking sweet as hell, Renoise is probably the best DAW I've used in terms of awesomeness but it's tracker interface is a major roadblock for some people, including me. Just can't get my head around it Then of course there's Reaper, real solid and real cheap.

If I had little money and needed a DAW I'd buy Reaper. If I for some reason had to stop using Ableton and learn another program it would either be FL or Renoise.

use whichever you think is the prettiest...they all do the same thing

Skang wrote:Try out Presonus Studio One, it's actually quite good

if were going down that route digital performer cant be left out lol

Mac only^

Check out DaMuseBlog for some thoughts about daw choice.

That is a multipart series, and there are a few other posts about the topic.

Wow cheers for the feedback guys, took a while getting through those comments aha
Firstly "Basic A", I'm sorry if I have offended FL, I am simply just asking for some feedback, not trying to put one DAW above the other, but thanks for the input.
I forgot to mention that I am using windows, and will probably do so for a while to come, so that rules out logic?
I'm getting the impression that Albeton would be a good road to go down? How difficult is it to learn? And am i right in thinking it supports external plugins?
There has been quite an emphasis on the main ones, what about sonar x1? anyone had any experience? some people have said about a few bugs but I assume no DAW is completely perfect?
Cheers guys

bennyboi969 wrote:Wow cheers for the feedback guys, took a while getting through those comments aha
Firstly "Basic A", I'm sorry if I have offended FL, I am simply just asking for some feedback, not trying to put one DAW above the other, but thanks for the input.
I forgot to mention that I am using windows, and will probably do so for a while to come, so that rules out logic?
I'm getting the impression that Albeton would be a good road to go down? How difficult is it to learn? And am i right in thinking it supports external plugins?
There has been quite an emphasis on the main ones, what about sonar x1? anyone had any experience? some people have said about a few bugs but I assume no DAW is completely perfect?
Cheers guys

Ableton is about as difficult to learn as all the rest. It does really depend on how your brain works whether or not you will find different DAWs harder or easier but I think most people find Ableton isn't especially difficult. Not compared to say, Renoise at least. Bare in mind though that ANY DAW is fucking hard to learn and it takes a LONG time to do it. So if your tunes sound shit after 6 months of producing don't blame the program, you just gotta be patient.

Yes it does support external plug ins, one of my favourite things about ableton are how good the stock plug ins are though. Especially if you can afford the suite version. I only really find myself using Alchemy and a couple of monitoring plug ins and everything else I use came with Ableton.

Sonar I thought looked interesting for ages but they don't offer a demo which led to me steering clear. From what I've seen it looks a bit like presonus studio one though. Which I did demo and found it felt like a more clunky, less intuitive and more expensive version of Reaper.

Like I said before, if you want something relatively intuitive, powerful, a little bit quirky, nice looking and worth the cash I'd personally recommend Ableton, FL 10 or Reaper. Ableton is definitely a great choice if your leaning that way. It's what I use myself

On my Mac I use Logic. On my PC I use Ableton. I personally find Ableton really easy to work with, and rarely is stability a problem. I find it's a really nice workflow for me with session to arrangement view, and the stock plugins are ace. Especially if you are unfamiliar with DAWs my recommendation would definitely be Ableton.

Since you said you're a guitar player I assume you're going to be doing a lot of recording so I would rule out reason and while FL does allow you to record audio it does it in an odd way. Anytime you record something it turns it into an audio clip/sample right away and it's just kind of a hassle. I would go with ableton, sonar, cubase, pro tools.

personally id rule out cubase and pro tools. cubase is somewhat hard to learn iv heard and pro tools is a money pit more dedicated to recording...

basically your good options are
ableton
FL
reaper
sonar
reason

id suggest you get to demoing before making your choice. also watch videos and read a bit about each. try to feel out which one fits you best now and which one you think will fit you best in the future.

they all have their strengths and weaknesses.

From my experience...

Fruity Loops- Solid program, don't let anyone else tell you otherwise. Easy to use, great for beginners and a deadly tool for music veterans. FL popped my cherry long ago and I've been a music production slut ever since. I'll always love you FL. I'll never get over how quickly you could whip up a beat. I learned everything I ever wanted from looking at the demo projects and picking them apart (this was back in the day when I was using AOL / 56k dail up... I don't even remember youtube being around).

Reason- Kind of like WTF at first if you're a noob. Don't give up on it cause it has loads of great tools, only downfall is that you can't use third party plugins... :\ (rewire). Reason has everything you need though. Honestly, the workflow just annoyed me after a while but others will swear by it. Takes getting used too but you can make some beastly tunes with it.

Ableton- This is my current DAW. I like the workflow in Ableton- it just clicked with me instantly after working with FL and Reason. The built in plugins = sexy. Audio Warping is amazing. The Operator synth is powerful. The downfall to Ableton is its stability... for an expensive program ($700! I bought it legit) it crashes a lot. It always recovers the project you were working on though. If you take the time to learn the keyboard shortcuts it makes music making a breeze (Ctrl+E and Ctrl+J are a must). I would recommend it if you got the cash.

Big Freq wrote:they all have their strengths and weaknesses.

From my experience...

Fruity Loops- Solid program, don't let anyone else tell you otherwise. Easy to use, great for beginners and a deadly tool for music veterans. FL popped my cherry long ago and I've been a music production slut ever since. I'll always love you FL. I'll never get over how quickly you could whip up a beat. I learned everything I ever wanted from looking at the demo projects and picking them apart (this was back in the day when I was using AOL / 56k dail up... I don't even remember youtube being around).

Reason- Kind of like WTF at first if you're a noob. Don't give up on it cause it has loads of great tools, only downfall is that you can't use third party plugins... :\ (rewire). Reason has everything you need though. Honestly, the workflow just annoyed me after a while but others will swear by it. Takes getting used too but you can make some beastly tunes with it.

Ableton- This is my current DAW. I like the workflow in Ableton- it just clicked with me instantly after working with FL and Reason. The built in plugins = sexy. Audio Warping is amazing. The Operator synth is powerful. The downfall to Ableton is its stability... for an expensive program ($700! I bought it legit) it crashes a lot. It always recovers the project you were working on though. If you take the time to learn the keyboard shortcuts it makes music making a breeze (Ctrl+E and Ctrl+J are a must). I would recommend it if you got the cash.

yeah i agree with this guy...

btw reason is so fucking stable i have yet to see it crash....EVER. while it is a slight downfall that you cant use external plug ins it doesnt bother me because reasons are perfect for me. im hoping by reason 6 they add a few more things though to completely eliminate my want for vsts. but thats what makes reason so stable as well...

really its up to you though OP

lyons238 wrote:

Big Freq wrote:they all have their strengths and weaknesses.

From my experience...

Fruity Loops- Solid program, don't let anyone else tell you otherwise. Easy to use, great for beginners and a deadly tool for music veterans. FL popped my cherry long ago and I've been a music production slut ever since. I'll always love you FL. I'll never get over how quickly you could whip up a beat. I learned everything I ever wanted from looking at the demo projects and picking them apart (this was back in the day when I was using AOL / 56k dail up... I don't even remember youtube being around).

Reason- Kind of like WTF at first if you're a noob. Don't give up on it cause it has loads of great tools, only downfall is that you can't use third party plugins... :\ (rewire). Reason has everything you need though. Honestly, the workflow just annoyed me after a while but others will swear by it. Takes getting used too but you can make some beastly tunes with it.

Ableton- This is my current DAW. I like the workflow in Ableton- it just clicked with me instantly after working with FL and Reason. The built in plugins = sexy. Audio Warping is amazing. The Operator synth is powerful. The downfall to Ableton is its stability... for an expensive program ($700! I bought it legit) it crashes a lot. It always recovers the project you were working on though. If you take the time to learn the keyboard shortcuts it makes music making a breeze (Ctrl+E and Ctrl+J are a must). I would recommend it if you got the cash.

yeah i agree with this guy...

btw reason is so fucking stable i have yet to see it crash....EVER. while it is a slight downfall that you cant use external plug ins it doesnt bother me because reasons are perfect for me. im hoping by reason 6 they add a few more things though to completely eliminate my want for vsts. but thats what makes reason so stable as well...

really its up to you though OP

Do you know why they don't incorporate VSTs?

Big Freq wrote:Do you know why they don't incorporate VSTs [in Reason]?

Lol
because its not a DAW
it's a MIDI production suite that was engineered to provide synths, samplers, effects and extras needed to generate/process sounds, with a built in sequencer and ReWire capability to route its outputs to a channel in almost any DAW.

in other words, it doesn't incorporate VSTs because it IS a VST


Reason is 100000X more like a VST than a DAW. just cuz it has its own sequencer does not make this untrue.