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Hey guys,

Ive DJed for a year or so but its getting stale especially because I rarely get to play music I care about, so I decided to dip my feet into producing. I know the very basics when it comes to producing, and I have myself a MPK49, ableton 8 live and Massive. Ive been experimenting for a couples months.

so I have 4 questions
1. Following some of the tutorials on youtube and on this site, I started to make my own drum beats using snares, kicks, whatever from downloaded sample libraries but what i make all sounds like a donkey's ass. Ive read that you just have to keep making it until you "get it" but I'm trying to expedite this process. Ive tried layering drums (putting multiple kicks/hats together) or layering a kick with a snare and hat (using one of the tutorials on the site, taking into consideration basic attack, sustain, delay, etc) but it doesnt quite seem right. What would be the next logical steps for me to better this process? Would EQs be the problem?

2. Following up with #1, ive also read that all your drums have to be tonally correct, or at least your bass kick has to be the same key with your song. So how would I start to identify what key my drum samples are in?

3. Can anyone explain EQs to me? I understand that different sounds occupy different sound frequencies, and I get the theory behind lowpass/highpass, but I am not sure when and what exact frequencies I should be using for a drum line or a bass line.

4. Ive done many of those youtube tutorials, and the results have either been 1. sounds nothing like whats being tutored or 2. sounds right, but the bass or heaviness is not there. Is this simply because you must layer the higher bass with a sub bass?

I know its a lot of questions, but I am very eager to get producing, so any help would be great!

lorposralem wrote:2. Following up with #1, ive also read that all your drums have to be tonally correct, or at least your bass kick has to be the same key with your song. So how would I start to identify what key my drum samples are in?

Usually drums are many different pitches at one time so its unidentifiable. So you won't have to worry about this unless you are using an 808 or something with a defined pitch to it.

lorposralem wrote:Hey guys,

Ive DJed for a year or so but its getting stale especially because I rarely get to play music I care about, so I decided to dip my feet into producing. I know the very basics when it comes to producing, and I have myself a MPK49, ableton 8 live and Massive. Ive been experimenting for a couples months.

so I have 4 questions
1. Following some of the tutorials on youtube and on this site, I started to make my own drum beats using snares, kicks, whatever from downloaded sample libraries but what i make all sounds like a donkey's ass. Ive read that you just have to keep making it until you "get it" but I'm trying to expedite this process. Ive tried layering drums (putting multiple kicks/hats together) or layering a kick with a snare and hat (using one of the tutorials on the site, taking into consideration basic attack, sustain, delay, etc) but it doesnt quite seem right. What would be the next logical steps for me to better this process? Would EQs be the problem?

2. Following up with #1, ive also read that all your drums have to be tonally correct, or at least your bass kick has to be the same key with your song. So how would I start to identify what key my drum samples are in?

3. Can anyone explain EQs to me? I understand that different sounds occupy different sound frequencies, and I get the theory behind lowpass/highpass, but I am not sure when and what exact frequencies I should be using for a drum line or a bass line.

4. Ive done many of those youtube tutorials, and the results have either been 1. sounds nothing like whats being tutored or 2. sounds right, but the bass or heaviness is not there. Is this simply because you must layer the higher bass with a sub bass?

I know its a lot of questions, but I am very eager to get producing, so any help would be great!

a lot of these things you just need to learn by experimenting and putting in lot and lots of hours. the learning curve for production is VERY STEEP compared to dj'ing. a monkey can learn to beatmatch, but learning to produce music (well) is a different story.

layering samples. you dont have to do this. if you dont know how to do it, dont. you are better off just using high quality samples and NOT layering them. get yourself a pack of vengeance samples and you are good to go. you wont need to eq or compress them... in time as you progress, you may want to start layering.

tuning drums again, you dont have to do this. it can help you percussion elements sit better with the rest of your mix, but its certainly not something everyone does. as far as learning how to tell what key your samples are in, an easy way to do this in ableton is to look at the sample's waveform display in spectrum, and look to see what frequency it peaks at, mouse over that frequency on spectrum's display and it will show you what note that frequency corresponds to. you can then pitch you sample up or down to be in the same key as your song. better way to do it, does it sound good? cool leave it, if not, adjust it til it sounds good... if it doesnt sound good no matter what you do, pick a different sample.

eq/frequency ranges
http://howtomakeelectronicmusic.com/introduction-to-eq
http://www.buzzchurch.com/viewtopic.php?t=717
http://emusician.com/mag/emusic_equal_time/index.html

all the info you need is out there on tons of various websites and mr google is your friend. DSF prob isnt the best place to go to learn the basics you are looking for, but your best resource on DSF is the production bible > http://www.dubstepforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=159713

good luck

here's the deal...People may/may not answer your questions directly/indirectly ( I myself will be directly answering them)...But the thing about "getting it" is that the concept itself has a few rules of thumb that are consequently associated with this art form. The first is what you already know: KEEP PRACTICING! In every sense of the word...Re-do tutorials, keep applying concepts, work with sounds, start new tracks, finish new/old tracks....whatever it is, KEEP SPENDING TIME IN THE DAW!! The second rule is this: You are the only person holding yourself back (when it comes to "expediting" the "getting it")...What I mean is that anything/everything anyone could tell you in words has already been said/archived and you just have to research it. HERE'S THE KICKER!!!: You're only going to "get it" and be able to reproduce it (i.e. any EDM music concept) accurately depending on your investment in the first rule. And here is the reality about the RATE at which people get it: Some are naturals which pick it up in a couple months. Others, after a couple months don't "get it"...or all the way and then they come to this realization: If you are truly passionate enough about this, you WILL invest the time to get it, and I speak on behalf of EVERYONE ON THIS BOARD: YOU WILL EVENTUALLY GET IT, WE PROMISE !! Just give yourself the benefit and put in the time... Like any commitment that requires time, it helps to measure progress. The best way to do this is to make a soundcloud account and upload anything and everything you think people would be interested in hearing. Post the soundcloud link on Facebook, twitter, whatever... As time goes on, periodically go back and listen to your old songs...It's a trip!

P.S. There is no eventual totality of comprehending music. Yes, you want to learn HOW to do many things the pros can, as all of us....but they wouldn't be "pro" without their OWN sound. Finding your OWN sound takes serious time.

1. I pretty much answered this, but one thing that will "better" this process is popping on the spectrum in ableton and getting used to where kick drums, snares, etc hit on the spectrum in general...then go through different snares, different kicks, and see how they hit differently on the spectrum and the difference in how they sound apart from each other...this will train your ear to hear differences in bottom end from kicks, snares, etc and consequently help you to layer your sounds...PRO TIP: KISS (Keep It Simple Stupid)...If you're struggling to get beat grooves going, don't jump to layering ...it's prolonging your comprehension of creating beats that groove musically....Of course by all means, experiment, though at this stage of what you're capable of, you can make the fattest bass track ever with just one kick sample..trust me

2. jr answered this

3. No one will explain EQ to you anymore clearly than you can comprehend for yourself...So... research it...Don't get it on the first read through? Do it again...If you understand lp,hp theory, GREAT! that's the fundamentals for placing sounds in the frequency spectrum. Again, Spectrum analyzer will help to see where your sounds are peaking...Isolate them utilizing the lp/hp theory you know...However, I promise that you already understand how the concept is meant to work on its own, but now you have to put it into practice...It might take a few trys...again, if you just spend a day reading/applying/incorporating EQ theory into the rest of your palliate, you're going to expedite "getting it"...

4.One of the first things I desperately wanted to figure out was a bass DROP...at first I'd load a kick sample, and create a bassline on top. Needless to say, this was a great intuitive approach, but highly ineffective As I began to read/practice/apply my research, I learned about things like phase cancellation, overload, Frequency splitting, layers and layering frequencies, side chain compression, volume envelopes, etc which are all apart of getting the low end of your song to work together, come through, punch, hit, whatever....This has become apart of my palliate, wherein I continue to apply every time I consider the low end of my songs.

I'd like to conclude by saying that I by no means consider myself anything beyond a budding producer...However, I HAVE certainly put in the time on the research side of things(much more so than the practical side). Passion....it's what keeps me in front of my computer desk EVERYDAY, if even for a half hour at the least...It does take work, but the reward...it's so unique, so special....

I wouldn't recommend layer kicks unless you do some really careful EQ, you'll probably get some phase cancellation which will take the wind out of your kicks. You can always sample drums from other tunes or find some online that are decent. If you search you'll find a resource of a bunch of samples, I think it's called the DSF sample swap or something, some good stuff there.

Layering snares can be helpful, but again, make sure you're EQing each part so they don't interfere with each other.

Honestly forget everything you read about "producing". Making music is about feeling what element should be added next, noone can teach you how to write good edm. Yes you can read and be taught how do the more scientific side of it, mixing, mastering etc. But it's about feeling your music. Get any kick that sounds good, don't wiry abou the pitch, get whatever sounds good, hit record, turn in your metronome, and record a kick pattern that sounds good toyou, do this with all your drums, just do it. Now for melodies and such, having some Musical instrument exPerience would help, if you wantto make brostep, just fuck around with massive making weird noises, make it wobble , and play it over some drums and sub bass

Gosh everyone is making this so much more complicated than it needs to be

1. No need to layer drums (at least not until you know why your doing it), just get the levels right, choose the right samples and put them in the right place.

2. No.

3. Use your ears. There are no exact frequencies.

4. They probably have other effects on top of the patch and could well have a sub running underneath as well.

Wow thanks for the great replies! I'll just keep trying, learning and researching. Summers coming up and I dont know what else i need to be doing. I just wanted to conceptually ground myself a bit more so I didnt feel like a space cadet trying to figure things out. Ill post my progress, but thanks in advance!

wow,
big up dsf cru,
some good advice!

young space cadet thats actually what you are,
aint the baddest thing to be though.

i just like to chime in to the discussion that its right you dont have to tune your percussion
and you dont need to layer your drums in the first place
and those are both techniques that need some time to learn
BUT
both can lead to a phat sound...
so dont abandon them completely.
yeah but build with basic things you can still exchange or enhance any sound in the mixdown.
and its been mentioned before ... use your ears and if you need to train or some visual help use the spectrum analyzer.
use it for ftuning your drums too:
play kick, play a note on some pianolike sound, sounds similar? -> you found the key of your drum
doesnt sound similar? -> play different note
with a bit of training this will work
or use a spectrum analyzer and see wherer the root (lowest frequency peak) is -> found the key of your drum
(use freqency to note chart to translate, if you dont have a spectrum analyzer that shows notes), if you dont have a analyzer there are plenty free ones.