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Your thoughts on the Phrygian
Posted: Wed May 04, 2011 6:59 am
by nowaysj
Yeah, not this:
Like this:
So have been writing quite a bit in the natural minor of F, but just started feeling like the F# sounded better than the G. I come to learn this is something called the Phrygian... mode? Scale? I don't know wtf it is.
Anyone with some time care to share a little knowledge about this whole Phrygian bizzness?
Kind of joking around here, but I'm just starting to see the connection between scales and modes. I don't understand it at all, but now know enough to know that it is extremely powerful.
Any and all help appreciated.
Re: Your thoughts on the Phrygian
Posted: Wed May 04, 2011 8:17 am
by amphibian
I have nfi, but I am super keen to see where this conversation goes, watching it
Re: Your thoughts on the Phrygian
Posted: Wed May 04, 2011 8:20 am
by buttock
starting with the C-Major scale (the white keys) you can start on each note of the scale play the next 8 notes and you get another scale. they are called the modes of C-Major. If you start with E and play the next 8 white keys, you're Playing E-Phrygian. The thing one has to get a grip of, is the idea that the mood or color of a scale does not depend on the notes it consist of, but on the order of the notes and espacially the base note, the one you play the most.
Re: Your thoughts on the Phrygian
Posted: Wed May 04, 2011 10:34 am
by Karoshi
Interested in this too! cheers buttock, helps abit!
Re: Your thoughts on the Phrygian
Posted: Wed May 04, 2011 5:55 pm
by Cymatic Kicks
http://www.cymatickicks.com/
I made this, it has a ton of music theory in there.
Phrygian is great, especially for a darker sound. The root to a half step up progression is definitely evil sounding.
Re: Your thoughts on the Phrygian
Posted: Wed May 04, 2011 6:07 pm
by Big Freq
I remember learning a little bit about Phrygian modes when taking guitar lessons...
The intervals go like this... H = Half step, W = Whole step
H W W W H W W
so say you started on E the scale would go
E F G A B C D E
if you started on C it would go
C C# D# F G G# A# C
same interval pattern. different starting note. Phrygian has a dark moody sound to it and a personal favorite of mine.
Re: Your thoughts on the Phrygian
Posted: Wed May 04, 2011 6:12 pm
by paravrais
Phrygian was one of the first scales I learnt when I played guitar, first it was 12 bar blues. Then some other blues scale I've never learnt on the piano or found out the name of and then phrygian. I think if you play it in the right way in the right key it has a wonderful dark egyptian feel to it. Still one of my favourite scales but I don't use it so much anymore, bit dark for the floaty happy stuff I've been making
Re: Your thoughts on the Phrygian
Posted: Wed May 04, 2011 6:43 pm
by drake89
modes are things like minor and major, phrygian is probably one too.
Re: Your thoughts on the Phrygian
Posted: Wed May 04, 2011 7:06 pm
by nowaysj
paravrais wrote:Phrygian was one of the first scales I learnt when I played guitar, first it was 12 bar blues. Then some other blues scale I've never learnt on the piano or found out the name of and then phrygian. I think if you play it in the right way in the right key it has a wonderful dark egyptian feel to it. Still one of my favourite scales but I don't use it so much anymore, bit dark for the floaty happy stuff I've been making
Waddya mean play it in the right way?
I play it like I play the natural minor, I just found that I was avoiding the 2nd note of the minor scale, just never really sounded right. But flattening it has changed the way I'm writing lines, pretty profoundly.
==
And beyond that, yeah, I've been up in C major's butt the past month. happy happy joy joy
Re: Your thoughts on the Phrygian
Posted: Wed May 04, 2011 7:36 pm
by thefrim
the Phrygian is AWESOME and certainly a dubstep staple.
I used it for the bass line and chords on a remix, and that remix is now being played out by Bassnectar. Coincidence?
Re: Your thoughts on the Phrygian
Posted: Wed May 04, 2011 8:06 pm
by -[2]DAY_-
love phrygian, but with that staff and notes, you're likely to draw a lot of "wtf"'s lol.
I'm all about music theory and composition, personally, but i lack a lot of other insights, particularly about structuring a beat and sound design.
It takes all kinds
Re: Your thoughts on the Phrygian
Posted: Wed May 04, 2011 8:12 pm
by makemerich
i dont know if you play guitar but there is a book called guitar grimoir with every scale, mode, inversion, in existance.
maybe there is one on piano as well.
i never quite understood the theory but its fun to pick certain modes and make a hook or something out of them.
Re: Your thoughts on the Phrygian
Posted: Thu May 05, 2011 10:23 am
by GRAYSKALE
Phrygian is the tits. Metallica use it in like 9 out of every of their tunes so it has to be good
Phrygian dominant is where its at though, check out the harmonic minor scale for those flamenco, classical flavors.
Re: Your thoughts on the Phrygian
Posted: Thu May 05, 2011 12:22 pm
by paravrais
nowaysj wrote:paravrais wrote:Phrygian was one of the first scales I learnt when I played guitar, first it was 12 bar blues. Then some other blues scale I've never learnt on the piano or found out the name of and then phrygian. I think if you play it in the right way in the right key it has a wonderful dark egyptian feel to it. Still one of my favourite scales but I don't use it so much anymore, bit dark for the floaty happy stuff I've been making
Waddya mean play it in the right way?
I play it like I play the natural minor, I just found that I was avoiding the 2nd note of the minor scale, just never really sounded right. But flattening it has changed the way I'm writing lines, pretty profoundly.
==
And beyond that, yeah, I've been up in C major's butt the past month. happy happy joy joy
Well depending on how you use it you can achieve quite a different sound. Sort of hard to put down in writing but it can be quite dark but also quite up beat and eastern feeling.
I don't know if this is 'correct' in theory terms either but I've made a song in phrygian where the breakdown changes into harmonic minor of another key. I thought it sounded pretty good, though Kaiori is probably about to castrate me...
Re: Your thoughts on the Phrygian
Posted: Thu May 05, 2011 3:15 pm
by -[2]DAY_-
nothing wrong w changing keys and modes.
plus if you play harmonic minor from the second note -- for example, A harmonic minor, but from B to B:
you get a really hip sounding Locrian/Dorian hybrid. i call it Locra-Dorian.
the notes would be B, C, D, E, F, G#, A -- locrian with a raised 6th (or Dorian with a flatted 2nd and 5th).
my other favorite is what i call Phrygi-Dorian: Dorian with just a flatted 2nd. its the same as the above, except its off a melodic minor scale instead of harmonic.
so, A melodic minor, from B to B:
B, C, D, E, F#, G#, A
I like when a tune modulates keys but also changes the root to give a different tonal center. For instance, you're in E minor, and you play a big E7 (b5, b9, b13, flat anything really, just nice and altered) to bring you into A minor. the next section, you write in A harmonic minor, but the root is anchored on B, giving your whole shit this tense as fuck altered locrian feel. hmm i better go write a tune instead of geeking out on everyone lol.
Re: Your thoughts on the Phrygian
Posted: Thu May 05, 2011 3:25 pm
by kaiori breathe
paravrais wrote:
Well depending on how you use it you can achieve quite a different sound. Sort of hard to put down in writing but it can be quite dark but also quite up beat and eastern feeling.
I don't know if this is 'correct' in theory terms either but I've made a song in phrygian where the breakdown changes into harmonic minor of another key. I thought it sounded pretty good, though Kaiori is probably about to castrate me...
Nope, no reason why you can't do that. Heck you can have a key change from E Major to E minor if you want, it's just pretty difficult to make it sound good.
Re: Your thoughts on the Phrygian
Posted: Thu May 05, 2011 3:26 pm
by -[2]DAY_-
all about making bad things sound great
Re: Your thoughts on the Phrygian
Posted: Thu May 05, 2011 3:55 pm
by Hurtdeer
-[2]DAY_- wrote:all about making bad things sound great
Re: Your thoughts on the Phrygian
Posted: Thu May 05, 2011 6:15 pm
by nowaysj
-[2]DAY_- wrote:nothing wrong w changing keys and modes.
plus if you play harmonic minor from the second note -- for example, A harmonic minor, but from B to B:
you get a really hip sounding Locrian/Dorian hybrid. i call it Locra-Dorian.
the notes would be B, C, D, E, F, G#, A -- locrian with a raised 6th (or Dorian with a flatted 2nd and 5th).
my other favorite is what i call Phrygi-Dorian: Dorian with just a flatted 2nd. its the same as the above, except its off a melodic minor scale instead of harmonic.
so, A melodic minor, from B to B:
B, C, D, E, F#, G#, A
I like when a tune modulates keys but also changes the root to give a different tonal center. For instance, you're in E minor, and you play a big E7 (b5, b9, b13, flat anything really, just nice and altered) to bring you into A minor. the next section, you write in A harmonic minor, but the root is anchored on B, giving your whole shit this tense as fuck altered locrian feel. hmm i better go write a tune instead of geeking out on everyone lol.
I'm going to have to give this post some thought...
Re: Your thoughts on the Phrygian
Posted: Thu May 05, 2011 7:02 pm
by alphacat