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Man I don't know what to do, like, I just made these two kicks by layering some samples and stuff:

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And they're pretty good, but they just don't have that booming impact like where around 100-120 hz is.I tried boosting those freqs but it doesn't make it more powerful, it just gets muddy. I don't know what to do.

layer another kick/low tom sample that contains presence/punch in the 100-120hz range? Slight compression the "glue" the kicks together might be worht a shot.

choose better samples, thats where it all starts, try find a sample that has punch in the range your looking for, saves pissing about with compression.

Cheeky wrote:choose better samples, thats where it all starts,

This.

You gotta start off with something decent.

I really wanna say something about polishing turds but then that stupid mythbusters video will get posted.

get two kick, one that has no low end but really snaps in the higher freqs, and one that just thumbs hard with a hard attack and semi quick release, eq the two so they dont freq clash, or you can leave it if it sounds good. Put light compression to glue them together. save in the chaddub custom drums folder.

If the kicks are getting muddy when you layer 'em, it's because you aren't EQing 'em properly first.

Make sure you line your kicks up properly when you layer them. Don't just set the both on the same beat in the FL pattern sequencer and be done with it.

Yeah I do EQ them. For the second kick I had one for the 120-150 hz punch, one for the 100-50 hz low end, a closed hat for the high end, and another kick for the mid range. I think I had another sample in there too but I can't remember.

I guess I'm just going to have to find better samples, but I feel like I'm looking for that special frequency to boost to get the sound that's in my head, idk. I'll figure it out.

Another thing that can help a lot with getting huge kicks is parallel compression. Setup a compressor on an aux track, max the threshold & ratio, give it a good amount of knee, play with attack & release settings so you get a nice 'pump' happening from your compressor,(also change the types of compressors that are included in most DAWs until you find the one that pumps right).

Mix this with your original layered kick sample from above, should have a lot more beef.

Also, start your mixes with a master compressor on. Vintage Warmer 2 works great, and gives your whole mix a little more life.

Pulse-Ion wrote:Another thing that can help a lot with getting huge kicks is parallel compression. Setup a compressor on an aux track, max the threshold & ratio, give it a good amount of knee, play with attack & release settings so you get a nice 'pump' happening from your compressor,(also change the types of compressors that are included in most DAWs until you find the one that pumps right).

Mix this with your original layered kick sample from above, should have a lot more beef.

Also, start your mixes with a master compressor on. Vintage Warmer 2 works great, and gives your whole mix a little more life.

isnt it bad practice to mixdown with shit on the master already? Can anyone back me up on this or am i talking bollocks

Pulse-Ion wrote:Another thing that can help a lot with getting huge kicks is parallel compression. Setup a compressor on an aux track, max the threshold & ratio, give it a good amount of knee, play with attack & release settings so you get a nice 'pump' happening from your compressor,(also change the types of compressors that are included in most DAWs until you find the one that pumps right).

Mix this with your original layered kick sample from above, should have a lot more beef.

Also, start your mixes with a master compressor on. Vintage Warmer 2 works great, and gives your whole mix a little more life.

haha no DONT do that! you want to bring that life to the mix once you have already mixed it!

Shaack audio transient shaper.

I use that shit on everything.

Trainrek wrote:Shaack audio transient shaper.

I use that shit on everything.

Also, its drive option is really good, it can shave a few dbs of something to give you more headroom

Yes, I have been watching reso's masterclass

I like your style.

I was taught the trick of mixing into a mastering limiter in college, its not to make you forgot about gain structure, and I see why this method is looked upon poorly. But if used correctly this can save you a bunch of time and headaches early in the mixing process.

Unless theres something my profs were wrong about, to which I hope someone here can explain to me why its bad practice to mix into a master compressor/limiter.

I'll share my method for making kicks because I think its one of the things I'm figuring out when it comes to production and also one of the things I've spent the most time on.

Get yourself three kick layers (three separate tracks grouped or bussed). Highs, mids, and lows. Layer the mid kick first, this is the one that really hits you in the chest. Anything in the Vengeance sample packs are really good for this. Shave the first part of the sample off, the high transient part, you don't need it because you are going to find another kick with a high transient/hard attack that you really like. This also helps you avoid phasing. Secondly, get your high kick (should hit around 1 - 2k) and cut off everything but the very beginning of the sound. Now you should be hearing the beginning of the high kick as well as everything but the beginning of the mid range kick. Lastly, you need a sub layer. This gives your kick that basketball effect. I really like to use Wave Alchemy Drum Tools sample pack for this because they already have the subs conveniently chopped for you and you can just go through and preview each one along with the kick you have (if you're in Ableton). Layer your sub layer, or the very last part of the kick you hear underneath again, remove the very first part of this layer. Adjust the release depending on how long you want your sub to last. Voila, you should have a decent sounding kick drum.

Next I like to EQ each range a little bit or sometimes a lot depending on what I think sounds good. Dipping some of the 500 hz range out of the midrange kick usually suits me well being as that a lot goes on in that area of a mix normally. I should also mention that I like to do a low cut on all three kicks. With the high end kick layer there is no reason to have anything below 250 hz, and the mid range kick there is really no reason to have anything below 70 hz usually. For the sub layer, I'll usually just leave as is until I get it in the track and start playing around with the mix. Next what I like to do is put a transient designer on the group channel. I'll adjust the attack parameter to give a bit more bite usually. Tube saturation is another thing that works well in getting a kick to slam. Any saturation plugin will do. I then add compression to the group channel, I use Cytomic "The Glue" (great compressor). I usually start from a drum preset and move things around from there. I then add a limiter to the group channel for more overall volume. I like to get it nice and loud but not really smashing the peaks of the sound, that way its still adjustable and useable later on. Also, just for kick drum creation I put a limiter on the master. Once again I don't like this to hit 0 decibels. Make sure your volumes are turned down low enough to support bringing up volumes with a limiter.

As far as running a limiter on the master channel during the mix. A lot of people do it and there are many debates on the subject. It's good practice to keep it set to zero just in case one of your VSTs or your DAW spits out some nasty unexpected noise. Also it's just insurance that nothing on your track will break the 0 db threshold. I think in the most recent production vid in computer music magazine, Kryptic Minds use a Vintage Warmer on their master channel during the mix. It seems to be a pretty common practice among producers.

Hope this helps

Thanks for the info insahn, definitely gonna give this kick method a try. What do you normally use for a transient designer? one that works for Mac?(logic/ableton)

Pulse-Ion wrote:Thanks for the info insahn, definitely gonna give this kick method a try. What do you normally use for a transient designer? one that works for Mac?(logic/ableton)

read my post above

shaack audio transient shaper is brilliant

Trainrek wrote:

Pulse-Ion wrote:Thanks for the info insahn, definitely gonna give this kick method a try. What do you normally use for a transient designer? one that works for Mac?(logic/ableton)

read my post above

shaack audio transient shaper is brilliant

and if you can't find it. use logics built in transient designer. enveloper. still very nice and effective.

also Chad. mutha fuckkan google it

when you're layering audio, zoom waaaaaay in on the waveforms and make sure things are in phase. Out-of-phase samples are the 1st culprit for making things sound weak.

also-- just turn your kick up in the mix, relative to everything else.

and ditto on parallel comp-- really squash it down so that it just the attack, and then bring the body back in.

Sharmaji wrote:when you're layering audio, zoom waaaaaay in on the waveforms and make sure things are in phase. Out-of-phase samples are the 1st culprit for making things sound weak.

Just elaborating on this, but this is where fine pitching can be a godsend... Try layering two kicks that are out of phase with one another, weak sounds... zoom in, align the attacks which are usually pretty sharp, then pitch to correct the phase issues on the releases, which is typically where you see the most bass in a kick, and therefore where phase issues become most sensitive...

The first kick in the O.P. is very out of phase, to the point it sounds almost delayed, not just phasing.

OP, it sounds like you really do need to to start with better samples... You might want to invest in either the vengeance packs or possibly visit darkbeats and do some digging around. I know that vengeance and the darkbeats samples are all kinda cliche examples, but youll find great stuff in both.

Parallel compression, and reverb on a send channel. Then I usually EQ to find the punchy/boomy part of the kick, and I give it a slight boost.

This usually gives me pretty good results, even without layering kicks.